When is Self Defense, Self Defense?

[1blackman1]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...Nrb?li=BBnb7Kz

Involuntary manslaughter and jail for man firing his legal weapon at a vehicle attempting to run him off the road. I suppose that’s not self defense. As the jury determined “he didn’t need to fire his weapon.” Hmmmm.

[reddog1951]

Might be racial disparity...won't argue that point. But, either black, white, Hispanic, or purple, there are better ways to deal with incidents like this on the road. Take a sudden exit, drive to a public venue, better yet police station, but by all means don't escalate. Oh, yeah, use you cell phone to call police. I think there was too much testosterone and alcohol involved on both sides, which don't mix well with firearms.

I don't doubt that the drunk punks initiated, but the response was out of proportion in my opinion, and would have been equally out of proportion had the racial mix been opposite....but as stated up front, I won't comment on the application of "justice".

[Jackie S]

Since he had another person in the car with him, I think the Jury got it wrong.

He was not only protecting his life, but hers.

None of us can really say what we would do in the same situation.

[Levianon17]

I won't get into the Racial aspect of it, that's neither here nor there. Claiming "Self Defense" by shooting from a moving vehicle into another moving vehicle is never a good idea, especially when an innocent passenger who has no immediate control over the vehicle is struck and killed by a stray bullet.

[1blackman1]

One car was trying to force another off the road. I’d say that’s pretty dangerous and could have resulted in both passenger and driver being badly injured or killed. Is that less dangerous than firing into the other vehicle to keep them from harming you?

[lustylad]

Hmmm... sounds like a typical day in La-la land.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

One car was trying to force another off the road. I’d say that’s pretty dangerous and could have resulted in both passenger and driver being badly injured or killed. Is that less dangerous than firing into the other vehicle to keep them from harming you?

That would be a tough situation to be in. If the driver of the Truck takes a bullet that renders him incapacitated and he can't safely control the vehicle he's now a danger to his passengers as well as other motorists on the road. Anytime a Firearm is used in Self Defense there is always some liability involved. In this case a back seat passenger was killed, that's not good either. Besides the shooter has the burden of proof that the other driver was trying to aggressively place him in grave danger by running him off the road. That might be hard to prove.

[1blackman1]

He had a witness, his passenger.

Wilson, a biracial Black man, 21 years old at the time of the shooting on June 14, 2020, fired his legal handgun at a pickup truck of white teens who he says were yelling racial slurs at him and trying to run him and his white girlfriend off the road near Statesboro, Ga. One of those bullets struck and killed 17-year-old Haley Hutcheson, who was in the back seat of the truck

“[The teens] admitted to hiding evidence. They admitted to being intoxicated,” Jenkins told Yahoo News. “Whether it’s the DA sharing information with the judge or recalling the judge ... it’s been an uphill battle.”

The driver of the pickup and two passengers who took the witness stand denied threatening or otherwise provoking Wilson. They also acknowledged that they had been drinking that night, though they denied being drunk.

One of the truck's passengers, Luke Conley, declined to testify by invoking his Fifth Amendment right against giving self-incriminating testimony. He has been charged with misdemeanor obstruction after police said he gave investigators conflicting information about the shooting.

Emma Rigdon, Wilson's girlfriend at the time, testified that she didn't hear any racial slurs before the shooting. But she recalled being frightened when the pickup truck “started swerving into our lane” and forced Wilson's car onto the shoulder of the highway.

[1blackman1]

Let’s hear some more excusism as to why this wasn’t self-defense.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

He had a witness, his passenger.

Wilson, a biracial Black man, 21 years old at the time of the shooting on June 14, 2020, fired his legal handgun at a pickup truck of white teens who he says were yelling racial slurs at him and trying to run him and his white girlfriend off the road near Statesboro, Ga. One of those bullets struck and killed 17-year-old Haley Hutcheson, who was in the back seat of the truck

“[The teens] admitted to hiding evidence. They admitted to being intoxicated,” Jenkins told Yahoo News. “Whether it’s the DA sharing information with the judge or recalling the judge ... it’s been an uphill battle.”

The driver of the pickup and two passengers who took the witness stand denied threatening or otherwise provoking Wilson. They also acknowledged that they had been drinking that night, though they denied being drunk.

One of the truck's passengers, Luke Conley, declined to testify by invoking his Fifth Amendment right against giving self-incriminating testimony. He has been charged with misdemeanor obstruction after police said he gave investigators conflicting information about the shooting.

Emma Rigdon, Wilson's girlfriend at the time, testified that she didn't hear any racial slurs before the shooting. But she recalled being frightened when the pickup truck “started swerving into our lane” and forced Wilson's car onto the shoulder of the highway.

Ok, the driver of the Truck swerved into Wilson's lane forcing his vehicle onto the shoulder. I am going to assume the two vehicles never made contact, so there was no damage to either vehicle. Wilson's vehicle entered the shoulder of the road unscathed. So in the midst of maintaining control of his vehicle on the shoulder of the road Wilson fires an uncalculated shot at the opposing vehicle and kills a passenger in the back seat. This is a flimsy Self Defense case. Wilson's vehicle was his best way out of this bad situation. Fumbling with a firearm, controlling a vehicle to make an accurate shot usually doesn't end well and it apparently didn't in this case.

[nevergaveitathought]

it reads like they all bent over backwards for him

theres a reckoning when you indiscriminately fire into a vehicle and kill someone who had no control over any situation all because the other vehicle swerved

but i will say he was mistreated if you wish to do a whataboutism comparing his case to michael byrd

[1blackman1]

I’m not mr whataboutism and didn’t compare it to anything. That’s the right’s go to fall back not mine. I’m presenting what the news presented as the facts. I think it’s pretty easy actually. The facts seem simple. He and his passenger say the truck tried to force the car off the road. One passenger in the truck took the fifth and the other two denied doing anything but admitted they were drinking. The driver claims he was defending himself (and by extension his passenger) and fired his weapon into the truck.

Bend over backwards all you want to attempt to reason away why this isn’t self defense. The castle doctrine or in this case “stand your ground” doesn’t require that you try to “escape” the situation if you fear for your life or great injury. That’s what he’s claiming. Big truck runs little car off the road and he and the gal could definitely get hurt. Or the guys in the truck coulda jumped out and attacked them if successful running them off the road. He could definitely fear that. Taken on its face it should be simple under the law.

As for it being murder, the jury coulda found him guilty of that if they believed he was just indiscriminately firing at a vehicle that was not doing anything so we can likely throw that out the window. The jury must have believed there was something that occurred involving the guys and truck.

Put more simply the jury had to believe one of these scenarios

1. Defendant just shot the truck for no reason
2. Defendant was in fear of his and his girlfriend’s life and fired
3. The guys in the truck did something which triggered defendant to feel threatened and him firing his weapon
4. The guys did something minor and defendant way over reacted by firing.

Here is where the problem arises. In 1 and 4 there’s a clear murder charge. Not even manslaughter. So they must have believed some version of 2 and 3 which would have to be self defense. Particularly taking stand your ground into consideration.


I suspect I know the reason why it wasn’t but that’s a different discussion.

[Salty Again]

... Uh... WHY is this in the Political thread??

### Salty

[1blackman1]

Self defense and stand your ground being applied disparately is pretty political.

[Salty Again]

... Hmmmmm... Reckon that's fair enough.

... I DO believe that I agree-with YOUR opinion on the case.
I'll need to read some more.

#### Salty