Proof that Bigger Government DOES NOT WORK !!!!!!!!!!!

[Whirlaway]

Kudos to Wellendowed for proof that bigger government does not work....why the left continues to demand more and more of what does not work is astounding....it is about time government be downsized to the important and basic tasks of good government...................

"The West Texas plant explosion killed 15 people,injured 200 people and destroyed about 150 homes- so the damage greatly exceeded the Boston terrorist plot.

However, the west Texas plant slipped by the regulatory agencies and due to lack of regulations that they have in Texas- the plant stored more Ammonia Nitrate than what is normally allowed."

Here's some interesting data from Think Progress a left wing site:

And the plant falls under the purview of an alphabet soup of regulatory agencies: the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA), the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA),the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ), the Texas Department of State Health Services (DSHS), and the Office of Texas State Chemist.

Many of these agencies have previously cited and/or fined the company. But they aren’t required to coordinate with each other, and small distributors like the one that exploded are part of a system that focuses more on larger plants. Given its size, most of the inspections only happen after a complaint is made.

OSHA: OSHA records show that West Chemical & Fertilizer Co. hadn’t been inspected since 1985. Before that it had been issued a $30 fine for a serious violation for storing anhydrous ammonia, and OSHA cited it for four other serious violations but didn’t issue fines.

PHMSA: The PHMSA last inspected the West plant in 2011, when it issued a $10,100 fine for missing placards, transporting anhydrous ammonia in non-specification tanks, and “not having a security plan” in violation of Hazardous Materials Regulations. The plant took corrective action and reached a compromise with PHMSA in which it admitted to the violations and paid a lowered penalty of $5,250.

EPA: The EPA issued a $2,300 fine for the West plant in 2006 for failing to have a risk management plan that met federal standards. It wasn’t fined again after that, and in its report to the EPA, the plant stated “no” under the question of whether there were fire or explosive risks. It said the worst possible scenario would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that wouldn’t harm anyone.

TCEQ: A complaint of a strong ammonia smell triggered an investigation by the TCEQ in 2006, but it took the agency 11 days to inspect the plant. While at the plant, investigators also found that it had been operating for two years without an air quality permit, but after it cited the company and the company obtained the permit TCEQ didn’t return, as it usually doesn’t visit facilities unless there has been a complaint.

DHS: Fertilizer facilities are required to report to the DHS if they hold more than 400 pounds of ammonium nitrate. The plant in West held 270 tons of it, but it failed to report this as is required. The plant did report this to the Texas DSHS.

DSHS: The West plant submitted a Type II report as part of the Chemical Reporting Program for last year, in which it documented many hazardous chemicals in amounts that pose a risk of fire or reactivity. It reported 100,000 pounds of anhydrous ammonia, which poses an short-term risk of fire, and 18,000 of ammonium nitrate in its largest container, which poses both a short-term and long-term risk of fire, among others. These reports serve as notification to the state that facilities have certain hazardous chemicals and can be used by first responders and the community to plan for emergencies. This information was not shared with DHS.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...latory-cracks/

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=731106

[Whirlaway]

Like gun control, border security, immigration laws, and such, bigger government doesn't mean smarter more efficient government........

The Tea Party favors a smaller more effective and efficient government...........what's your solution ?

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Like gun control, border security, immigration laws, and such, bigger government doesn't mean smarter more efficient government........

The Tea Party favors a smaller more effective and efficient government...........what's your solution ?

That's easy Trendy, I want an efficient government..............with less of your innacurate "trends."

[i'va biggen]

Think about your idea that free enterprise will police itself and needs no government oversight.

[Whirlaway]

@ Eva, who said "no government" ?

[bojulay]

Whirlaway called it, another tragedy that could have been avoided
if it were not for bumbling, fumbling, bloated, and useless Government.

[jbravo_123]

If the workers all had moar guns, they could've shot the explosion to death before it did any damage.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

@ Eva, who said "no government" ?

Winnie you silly bitch you do all the time,but the point was free enterprise in this case didn't work and you blame the government.

[Whirlaway]

I have never said we would be better off with "no government"............prove otherwise; you claim I say it "all the time"..........

PROVE IT WITH A QUOTE !

[Whirlaway]

You think the point is free enterprise didn't work; when in fact, the federal regulators failed to do their job !

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

You think the point is free enterprise didn't work; when in fact, the federal regulators failed to do their job !

OMG it will never sink into that stump you call a head. No hope here If free enterprise was doing it's job instead of breaking a lot of rules there would have now been the tragedy, you refer to as the governments fault. Try to wrap your head around that.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Kudos to Wellendowed for proof that bigger government does not work....why the left continues to demand more and more of what does not work is astounding....it is about time government be downsized to the important and basic tasks of good government...................

"The West Texas plant explosion killed 15 people,injured 200 people and destroyed about 150 homes- so the damage greatly exceeded the Boston terrorist plot.

However, the west Texas plant slipped by the regulatory agencies and due to lack of regulations that they have in Texas- the plant stored more Ammonia Nitrate than what is normally allowed."

Here's some interesting data from Think Progress a left wing site:

And the plant falls under the purview of an alphabet soup of regulatory agencies: the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA), the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA),the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ), the Texas Department of State Health Services (DSHS), and the Office of Texas State Chemist.

Many of these agencies have previously cited and/or fined the company. But they aren’t required to coordinate with each other, and small distributors like the one that exploded are part of a system that focuses more on larger plants. Given its size, most of the inspections only happen after a complaint is made.

OSHA: OSHA records show that West Chemical & Fertilizer Co. hadn’t been inspected since 1985. Before that it had been issued a $30 fine for a serious violation for storing anhydrous ammonia, and OSHA cited it for four other serious violations but didn’t issue fines.

PHMSA: The PHMSA last inspected the West plant in 2011, when it issued a $10,100 fine for missing placards, transporting anhydrous ammonia in non-specification tanks, and “not having a security plan” in violation of Hazardous Materials Regulations. The plant took corrective action and reached a compromise with PHMSA in which it admitted to the violations and paid a lowered penalty of $5,250.

EPA: The EPA issued a $2,300 fine for the West plant in 2006 for failing to have a risk management plan that met federal standards. It wasn’t fined again after that, and in its report to the EPA, the plant stated “no” under the question of whether there were fire or explosive risks. It said the worst possible scenario would be a 10-minute release of ammonia gas that wouldn’t harm anyone.

TCEQ: A complaint of a strong ammonia smell triggered an investigation by the TCEQ in 2006, but it took the agency 11 days to inspect the plant. While at the plant, investigators also found that it had been operating for two years without an air quality permit, but after it cited the company and the company obtained the permit TCEQ didn’t return, as it usually doesn’t visit facilities unless there has been a complaint.

DHS: Fertilizer facilities are required to report to the DHS if they hold more than 400 pounds of ammonium nitrate. The plant in West held 270 tons of it, but it failed to report this as is required. The plant did report this to the Texas DSHS.

DSHS: The West plant submitted a Type II report as part of the Chemical Reporting Program for last year, in which it documented many hazardous chemicals in amounts that pose a risk of fire or reactivity. It reported 100,000 pounds of anhydrous ammonia, which poses an short-term risk of fire, and 18,000 of ammonium nitrate in its largest container, which poses both a short-term and long-term risk of fire, among others. These reports serve as notification to the state that facilities have certain hazardous chemicals and can be used by first responders and the community to plan for emergencies. This information was not shared with DHS.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...latory-cracks/

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=731106

You are a deceitful LIAR WhirlWay- my article PROVED that had their been strict regulations and a more cohesive regulatory agencies instead of one hand here and another hand there- this could have been prevented. More Regulation would have led to tighter stricter- the problem with West Texas was that their was not ONE main regulatory agency overseeing the operations- it was a classic example of too many cooks killed the broth.

[Whirlaway]

No. You'r article proved that despite multiple federal regulatory agencies at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars, those agencies failed to stop West, Texas....

The problem isn't that there were too many; but that the Federal Government is too ill-equipped, inefficient, and bureaucratized to be effective at stopping such events.

How in the hell does your article prove that the West, Texas event would not have happened with "more cohesive regulatory agencies"............that is a fucking boastful statement.....you think you can prove that which doesn't happen?

Oh the fantasy of the left..........

Your statement only proves that Federal oversight failed; the if's, why's, how's, what-for's is all speculation at this point !

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

No. You'r article proved that despite multiple federal regulatory agencies at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars, those agencies failed to stop West, Texas....

The problem isn't that there were too many; but that the Federal Government is too ill-equipped, inefficient, and bureaucratized to be effective at stopping such events.

How in the hell does your article prove that the West, Texas event would not have happened with "more cohesive regulatory agencies"............that is a fucking boastful statement.....you think you can prove that which doesn't happen?

Oh the fantasy of the left..........

Your statement only proves that Federal oversight failed; the if's, why's, how's, what-for's is all speculation at this point !

Did you fail to read what I printed in RED: let me show it to you again in bigger print this time:


Many of these agencies have previously cited and/or fined the company. But they aren’t required to coordinate with each other, and small distributors like the one that exploded are part of a system that focuses more on larger plants. Given its size, most of the inspections only happen after a complaint is made.


The article is clearly stating that their needs to be a more concise structure because as I mentioned there's too many hands involved instead one main organization regulating the industry.

Wirlway I am a Pharmacist by profession- Control medications like Oxycontin, Adderall, Vicodin are regulated and monitored by the DEA- if there were 5 of 6 different organizations trying to regulate control medications it would be a disaster. Overall, the FDA regulates all prescription and OTC drugs- again if there were 5 or 6 different organizations deciding which drugs come to the market and which one's don't or which meds can be pulledoff the market- it would be a fucking nightmare. Th NCAA regulates collegiate sports- are you telling me if there were 5 or 6 other smaller organizations overseeing collegiate sports it wouldn't be more chaotic?

Re-read the article- the author is basically saying it should be ONE organization doing the regulation instead of all of these small organization who don't even share information.

[Yssup Rider]

I don't think Whirlytard understands just how badly you just handed him his ass, WE!