Greed

[JohnnyCap]

Apparently, the World has left poor Mr. Ortiz and his family wanting.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCap

Apparently, the World has left poor Mr. Ortiz and his family wanting.

What a stupid comment on your part. I'm a Yankee fan, but Ortiz has performed. Why shouldn't he get paid? Have the Red Sox filed for bankruptcy this week and I missed it? You mean you are NOT supporting a guy who says he wants to keep working longer? Is he asking for more than the going rate in his industry?

Your post sure sounds like envy and little else.

[JohnnyCap]

Originally Posted by Old-T

What a stupid comment on your part. I'm a Yankee fan, but Ortiz has performed. Why shouldn't he get paid? Have the Red Sox filed for bankruptcy this week and I missed it? You mean you are NOT supporting a guy who says he wants to keep working longer? Is he asking for more than the going rate in his industry?

Your post sure sounds like envy and little else.

I have support for any guy that wants to keep working. I will not support extravagant wages for entertainers, wages built upon marketing dollars, raising the prices of trucks, financial advice, soda pop, beer, potato chips and sneakers, amongst other things. Normal Joes pay the bill for these guys to juice up to earn more. But its not about the juice. They don't produce enough to justify the dollars. Take 90% of their money and hire some nurses and teachers.

Owners are just as bad, you don't need to go there.

I don't care what team he's on, Ortiz isn't the lone face of greed, he's a flavor of the day. The team that buys this guy will be foolish again because more likely than not they'll have an under-performer on their hands before half the contract is up.

Ortiz seems like a pretty solid guy. But he can shove the family card up his ass. He's done fine for his family, and if that's what truly matters to him, he should retire and go spend time with them. It's rhetoric so he can get a big payday that keeps giving after he is able to.

It's not a yankee/red sox issue. I envy the performance of the athlete, for sure, I tried and didn't make it. Still trying. That doesn't exclude me and I won't pretend the money in sports provides anywhere near a value.

Next flavor: NCAA football players make a union? What the fuck is this coming to? If you play college ball, you do what you're told, say thank you, go to class, and then rape on your own time.

Next flavor:



What, not enough teachers in school? Had to cut the music department out of the budget? The money is well spent, as you can take comfort that we're 77% sure nobody's going to blow up the bobsled team.

[JCM800]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCap

They don't produce enough to justify the dollars. Take 90% of their money and hire some nurses and teachers.

you're suggesting that MLB owners should hire nurses & teachers?

[JohnnyCap]

Originally Posted by JCM800

you're suggesting that MLB owners should hire nurses & teachers?

Ya, yea, yeah, there's no easy answer. But it certainly isn't in the next at-bat.

[CuteOldGuy]

You don't understand economics. Not many people can hit like Ortiz. Lots of people can be teachers and nurses. It's a matter of scarcity.

Further, teachers and nurses depend on others for their jobs. Quite a few jobs depend on Ortiz.

Is he asking for more money? So? Why are so many of you so jealous of people who do their jobs well and get paid for it?

[JohnnyCap]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

You don't understand economics. Not many people can hit like Ortiz. Lots of people can be teachers and nurses. It's a matter of scarcity.

Further, teachers and nurses depend on others for their jobs. Quite a few jobs depend on Ortiz.

Is he asking for more money? So? Why are so many of you so jealous of people who do their jobs well and get paid for it?

Objecting to does not mean failing to understand. I'm not even sure I want to understand economics as we practice it. But I do get the concept of supply vs. demand, enough to know it can and will be manipulated. In this case, I would argue the supply is undervalued and the demand is overvalued.

Baseball employs a lot of people. That doesn't depend on one player. In a separate discussion, Tiger Woods came up, as he does have an obvious, measurable affect on viewership and revenue in his sport. That's a different problem, but nevertheless a problem. Maybe economically nurses and teachers are bad examples, but they are something needed. Ortiz and his like are not, they are icing on cake that has no nutritional value.

Asking for more money is on thing. Demanding a long term contract when clearly past your prime is quite another. In fact, it is contrary to the principles you claim I fail to understand. How would I do if I went to the grocery store, stood next to green bananas selling at .5/lb. and sold very ripe yellow bananas for .75/lb., but only if you buy a 5 lb. bunch?

A lot of people will make it all jealousy. Semantics, this would be envy. I can not do anything about that but admit yeah, sure. I'm have envy for a guy that gets to play a game for $140,000. Add a zero and my brow raises, maybe the envy too. But add another zero, and my reaction is, 'what the fuck are you doing?'

[BJerk]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCap

Objecting to does not mean failing to understand. I'm not even sure I want to understand economics as we practice it. But I do get the concept of supply vs. demand, enough to know it can and will be manipulated. In this case, I would argue the supply is undervalued and the demand is overvalued.

Baseball employs a lot of people. That doesn't depend on one player. In a separate discussion, Tiger Woods came up, as he does have an obvious, measurable affect on viewership and revenue in his sport. That's a different problem, but nevertheless a problem. Maybe economically nurses and teachers are bad examples, but they are something needed. Ortiz and his like are not, they are icing on cake that has no nutritional value.

Asking for more money is on thing. Demanding a long term contract when clearly past your prime is quite another. In fact, it is contrary to the principles you claim I fail to understand. How would I do if I went to the grocery store, stood next to green bananas selling at .5/lb. and sold very ripe yellow bananas for .75/lb., but only if you buy a 5 lb. bunch?

A lot of people will make it all jealousy. Semantics, this would be envy. I can not do anything about that but admit yeah, sure. I'm have envy for a guy that gets to play a game for $140,000. Add a zero and my brow raises, maybe the envy too. But add another zero, and my reaction is, 'what the fuck are you doing?'

The answer is we live in a fallen world. Go to church, or if you are COG, drink heavily.

[i'va biggen]

There is always Barber college ..Dalton in Road House

[Yssup Rider]

I hear there's a barber shop in the Salina Bus station...

[Doove]

People aren't paid based on their worth to society, but rather their worth to their employer. And it's the society, in the form of consumption, that ultimately determines that worth. Which is why i have no problem with the concept of someone being required to pay back, in the form of taxes, the society that determined their worth to be $10,000,000/yr at a greater rate than the person who had society determine they're only worth $60,000/yr.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

You don't understand economics. Not many people can hit like Ortiz. Lots of people can be teachers and nurses. It's a matter of scarcity.

Further, teachers and nurses depend on others for their jobs. Quite a few jobs depend on Ortiz.

Is he asking for more money? So? Why are so many of you so jealous of people who do their jobs well and get paid for it?

I don't care that he gets paid big bucks.

I DO care that pro sports are heavily subsidized by state and local governments. Every dime that a city spends on building a stadium is a dime that the team does not have to spend. That leaves a bigger pot of money in the owner's hands, which the owner then spends lavishly on high-priced free agents.

If sports franchises had to fund everything out of their tickets and TV revenues, they would have much less money to spend on players. Then you would have more reasonable salaries.

The NY Jets and NY Giants paid for their own (shared) stadium.

That is the way it should be in every city.

Even if it requires a federal law forbidding local governments from providing bonds, taxes, subsidized infrastructure, or some other type of funding to keep a team in town.

Alternatively, the federal law can require that any subsidies of that sort must be made available to ALL businesses on the same terms that sports teams receive.

That poison pill will kill sports subsidies. Good riddance.

[CuteOldGuy]

I agree with you ExNyer. No level of government should be financing professional sports.

[JohnnyCap]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I agree with you ExNyer. No level of government should be financing professional sports.

I agree as well, to the extent of civil support; the pro sports should fit the bill for all expenses related to the event. Traffic control, security, and snow removal, and pay the maximum tax rate on all profits.

[JohnnyCap]

Namath's 3-year deal in 1965 was valued at $427k. For three years, including a car and quite possibly jobs for his family, though that isn't clear to me. Ortiz will make $15 million in 2014 salary alone. Namath's 3 year money in 2012 dollars could value anywhere from $2.4-$9.3 million, currency conversion over time being a tricky subject, but clearly quite a bit less than what many others in several sports these days are making annually. And Namath's money was incomprehensible by all but maybe a few, arguably less than five, humans at the time.

Now we have millions of people willing to accept these numbers for what reason I do not know. Religion and booze combined can't make me understand. Huge TV contacts are priced onto the advertiser and then on to the consumer. Tomorrow's bowl ads are rumored to be $4 mill for 30 seconds. The SuperBowl commands $3k per ticket, but these are not true fans of either team, rather primarily corporate guests paid for by corporations passing costs onto the consumer. The attitude seems to be they can afford it but it stinks. It is woven into an economic system built upon confidence.