Who is fighting for you and who's against you?

[Rodram]

Perfect example of who cares about the middle class and who doesn't.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireS...d3963867f8%2C0

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/17/...re-filibuster/

[pixelwarrior]

Hey Rodram

You know why the world is rotten. Ever heard of the prisoners delima?
Basically, it's always in your best interest to lie. Because people naive enough to be honest, fry! Of course there are other possible worlds, but that would take work, honesty, loyalty, integrity, etc. Let me give you a definition of Conservatism, they conserve their time,effort, money, and emotional investment, and then steal yours.

[Rakhir]

Rodam,

I know you are adamant over the tax breaks and all. I did read the articles. However, I have to say I have read these types of stories for years but to date have never read one which details the what, where, or why of the specifics of the reasons or specific details of the tax breaks. What do they cover? Why were they instituted in the first place? Are they given so the oil companies explore in a certain region? It it so they continue to give money to other areas such as education? Or are they corporate breaks given to keep the bulk of their holdings in this country and continue to employ millions of Americans rather than leave or be driven out like so many other American businesses?

I only ask because as I stated I only read blanket statements of totals never specifics and I have looked.

[Rodram]

Good question rakhir, that needs to be clarified, let me see what I can come up with and I'll post it. I also posted an article from Huffpo you would be interested in and deserves your critique on the matter.

[Rodram]

Originally Posted by pixelwarrior

Hey Rodram

You know why the world is rotten. Ever heard of the prisoners delima?
Basically, it's always in your best interest to lie. Because people naive enough to be honest, fry! Of course there are other possible worlds, but that would take work, honesty, loyalty, integrity, etc. Let me give you a definition of Conservatism, they conserve their time,effort, money, and emotional investment, and then steal yours.

I don't know Pixel, I've closely monitored politics from the end of the Reagan years as a teenager and up until now and I'm very worried. I've never seen an assault on the working class like this ever. The conservative movement is fueled by massive corporate interests (Alec) and people with endless amounts of money to fund Tea parties filled with angry and woefully ignorant people that are willing to blindly do their bidding, they've reached into every governing body that I can think of from local school administrations all the way to the Supreme Court.

The Koch bros, Alec, Wall Street, Republican Governors,Wisconsin Labor Union battle, Michigan's Rep. Governor Rick Snyder taking over an entire town, the Citizens United ruling, the military industrial complex, Big Pharma, Big Oil, Telecommunications(AT&T soon will have a monopoly if nobody stops them), The Insurance industry, the attack on Soc Sec, the attack on Planned Parenthood and women's rights, racism and I could go on and on.

This is a machine that is fueled by unrelenting immoral and unethical GREED and is in every branch of public information from cable to the internet and talk radio and was put into place during the Reagan years. This conservative monster has been eating away at the very infrastructure that makes our country great and we are in grave danger of completely losing it.

The worst thing is, I'm not convinced that the general public understands what is happening, because it's happening very fast and is very complex and hard to comprehend.

If I were a god fearing man, I would be on my knees praying for salvation.

[Rodram]

I just posted the comment above and I got an email alert from another website about this. I've mentioned the Citizens United ruling many times and never really elaborated on it but here's a taste of what I'm talking about:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem...al.php?ref=fpa

** Check out the very end of the article and read the quote **

[pixelwarrior]

Your a smart guy Rodram. It is that bad. But like Juvenal used to say

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about bread and circuses. For other uses, see Bread and circuses (disambiguation).
"Bread and Circuses" (or bread and games) (from Latin: panem et circenses) is a metaphor for a superficial means of appeasement. In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace. The phrase also implies the erosion or ignorance of civic duty amongst the concerns of the common man (l'homme moyen sensuel).
In modern usage, the phrase has become an adjective to describe a populace that no longer values civic virtues and the public life. To many across the political spectrum, left and right, it connotes the triviality and frivolity that characterized the Roman Empire prior to its decline.
Contents [hide]
1 History
2 See also
3 Sources and notes
4 Further reading
[edit]History

This phrase originates from Rome in Satire X of the Roman poet Juvenal (circa 100 AD ). In context, the Latin phrase panem et circenses (bread and circuses) identifies the only remaining cares of a Roman populace which has given up its birthright of political involvement. Here Juvenal displays his contempt for the declining heroism of his contemporary Romans.[1] Roman politicians devised a plan in 140 B.C. to win the votes of the poor: giving out cheap food and entertainment, "bread and circuses", would be the most effective way to rise to power.
… Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses
[...] iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli / uendimus, effudit curas; nam qui dabat olim / imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se / continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, / panem et circenses. [...]
(Juvenal, Satire 10.77–81)
Juvenal here makes reference to the Roman practice of providing free wheat to Roman citizens as well as costly circus games and other forms of entertainment as a means of gaining political power through populism. The Annona (grain dole) was begun under the instigation of the popularis politician Gaius Sempronius Gracchus in 123 BC; it remained an object of political contention until it was taken under the control of the Roman emperors.
Indeed, Spanish intellectuals between the 19th and 20th centuries complained about the similar pan y toros ("bread and bullfights"). It appears similarly in Russian as хлеба и зрелищ ("bread and spectacle").
The film Gladiator includes a scene where the crowds are showered with loaves of bread just as the gladiators enter the ring.

[Rakhir]

Just out of curiosity you mention the Huffington Post and I was wondering if you are at all bothered by the fact that Arianna Huffington sold the HufPo for massive profit but did not pay the people who were instrumental in contributing and building the editorial site? In fact there is a huge issue over this right now:http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...gton-post-sale

She is being compared to a modern day slaver who made her money off the backs of others without even minimal compensation.

[pixelwarrior]

Go Spurs go! While we starve.

[pixelwarrior]

Sad. You think Bill Gates wrote all that code?

[pixelwarrior]

Did you see where the Chinese workers that make iPhones now are required to sign a non suicide agreement before being hired. Wonder how they will enforce it

[Rodram]

Originally Posted by Rakhir

Rodam,

I know you are adamant over the tax breaks and all. I did read the articles. However, I have to say I have read these types of stories for years but to date have never read one which details the what, where, or why of the specifics of the reasons or specific details of the tax breaks. What do they cover? Why were they instituted in the first place? Are they given so the oil companies explore in a certain region? It it so they continue to give money to other areas such as education? Or are they corporate breaks given to keep the bulk of their holdings in this country and continue to employ millions of Americans rather than leave or be driven out like so many other American businesses?

I only ask because as I stated I only read blanket statements of totals never specifics and I have looked.

Ok rakhir, here are some of the "subsidies" that are being looked at and your right, they do include tax breaks which are not by definition "subsidies".

Government R&D. The Department of Energy (DOE) has spent taxpayer dollars on oil research and development, including funding for unconventional oil, gas, and coal. Although President Obama’s FY 2012 budget request significantly cuts funding for the Office of Fossil Energy, decreasing its size by $417.8 million below the FY 2010 appropriation, it does not go far enough. The only funding in this area should maintain the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, for which the President’s budget requests an appropriate $121.7 million. Eliminating all other fossil energy funding would save $399 million.

Enhanced Oil Recovery (EOR) Tax Credit. Oil producers receive a 15 percent tax credit for costlier methods and technologies, such as injecting liquids and carbon dioxide into the earth. Many EOR processes are no longer in use, and the tax credit applies only when the price of oil falls below a certain level.

Marginal Well Production Credit. Marginal wells produce 15 or fewer barrels of oil per day, produce heavy oil, or produce mostly water and fewer than 25 barrels of oil per day. The marginal well production credit is another safety-net tax provision. This is another preferential tax credit that Congress should repeal.

Applied research of any kind—not just oil research and development—is better left to the private sector. The private sector should not be subsidized because of market conditions, as happens with the so-called safety-net tax credits that kick in if the price of oil falls below a certain level.

Now, I do know that one of the provisions in the bills being crafted by Democrats include subsidies for start up and small oil venture companies like yours, if you fall into that category. I advocate for those subsidies to continue or be given as the case may be. I will have more info for you soon.

[Rodram]

Originally Posted by Rakhir

Just out of curiosity you mention the Huffington Post and I was wondering if you are at all bothered by the fact that Arianna Huffington sold the HufPo for massive profit but did not pay the people who were instrumental in contributing and building the editorial site? In fact there is a huge issue over this right now:http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...gton-post-sale

She is being compared to a modern day slaver who made her money off the backs of others without even minimal compensation.

I'll tell you this much rakhir, if that turns out to be true, she'll be eviscerated by her readers in large part because she also used to be a conservative and she has made business dealings that can be considered as compromising the reputation and readership of Huffpo. She no longer owns Huffpo and she has partnered with AOL.

[Rodram]

Originally Posted by pixelwarrior

Your a smart guy Rodram. It is that bad. But like Juvenal used to say

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about bread and circuses. For other uses, see Bread and circuses (disambiguation).
"Bread and Circuses" (or bread and games) (from Latin: panem et circenses) is a metaphor for a superficial means of appeasement. In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace. The phrase also implies the erosion or ignorance of civic duty amongst the concerns of the common man (l'homme moyen sensuel).
In modern usage, the phrase has become an adjective to describe a populace that no longer values civic virtues and the public life. To many across the political spectrum, left and right, it connotes the triviality and frivolity that characterized the Roman Empire prior to its decline.
Contents [hide]
1 History
2 See also
3 Sources and notes
4 Further reading
[edit]History

This phrase originates from Rome in Satire X of the Roman poet Juvenal (circa 100 AD ). In context, the Latin phrase panem et circenses (bread and circuses) identifies the only remaining cares of a Roman populace which has given up its birthright of political involvement. Here Juvenal displays his contempt for the declining heroism of his contemporary Romans.[1] Roman politicians devised a plan in 140 B.C. to win the votes of the poor: giving out cheap food and entertainment, "bread and circuses", would be the most effective way to rise to power.
… Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses
[...] iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli / uendimus, effudit curas; nam qui dabat olim / imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se / continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, / panem et circenses. [...]
(Juvenal, Satire 10.77–81)
Juvenal here makes reference to the Roman practice of providing free wheat to Roman citizens as well as costly circus games and other forms of entertainment as a means of gaining political power through populism. The Annona (grain dole) was begun under the instigation of the popularis politician Gaius Sempronius Gracchus in 123 BC; it remained an object of political contention until it was taken under the control of the Roman emperors.
Indeed, Spanish intellectuals between the 19th and 20th centuries complained about the similar pan y toros ("bread and bullfights"). It appears similarly in Russian as хлеба и зрелищ ("bread and spectacle").
The film Gladiator includes a scene where the crowds are showered with loaves of bread just as the gladiators enter the ring.

That's a great point pixel, and have I come across several references to the Roman Empire while debating political issues but they were basically superficial references to its demise. Pragmatism is a great tool that I use often and is great for dialogues like were having.

If you don't mind, I would like to use this as a fantastic example to mirror our current political environment and how this relates to the Roman Empires fall. Populism is an easy target for me because it is often used and fairly easy to point out.
Thanks again!
Love the avatar by the way, I like chicks with lots of skin art.

[Rodram]

Originally Posted by Rakhir

Just out of curiosity you mention the Huffington Post and I was wondering if you are at all bothered by the fact that Arianna Huffington sold the HufPo for massive profit but did not pay the people who were instrumental in contributing and building the editorial site? In fact there is a huge issue over this right now:http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...gton-post-sale

She is being compared to a modern day slaver who made her money off the backs of others without even minimal compensation.

rakhir, you might have not seen this at the bottom of the article but these guys that are bringing suit are bloggers. Bloggers in general don't get paid and that is not the nature of blogging. The compensation, if you could call it that, is the exposure they receive in being able to reach a much larger readership than they would on their own blogs. If you go to Huffpo you can see that those articles that are from bloggers, their blogs are acknowledged in addition to other things like logging into their Tweets or getting emails from their blogs.
I was wondering why this suit was not really exposed in the American media but maybe there is more to it.