So why do we have 2 carrier strike groups by Israel?

[pxmcc]

show of solidarity with Israel?
sorta.

to help Israel level Hamas?
maybe, but prolly no.

but the real reason is to tell Hezbollah to not even think about an invasion of Israel from the north.

b/c, if Hezbollah goes in, Iran may follow. yikes.

and if Iran declares war on Israel, Russia (and maybe N. Korea) and ISIS may follow. and that's a clusterfuck.

the 2 carrier strike groups are there to deter Hezbollah, Iran, and Russia.

that's why we have 2 carrier strike groups by Israel.

thoughts?

[Unique_Carpenter]

You left out the two (GW and Indy) carrier fleets in the Persian gulf.
Each are accompanied by a heavy Cruiser of the Ticonderoga class, a handful of Destroyers & Guided Missile frigates each and other ships.
More than enough to turn Iran into a melted sand pit.

[pxmcc]

^^great point!

[winn dixie]

More boats are ready to head to the area

[pxmcc]

Iran and Hezbollah put Israel on notice: essentially, enough with the war crimes in Gaza. "we will intervene if it continues" was the gist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.alj...nsive-launched

ground offensive is fine, collective punishments, including for civilians-which are war crimes btw-are not.

don't underestimate Hezbollah and Iran. you think Persian Gulf II was bad? war with Hezbollah and Iran's 1 million plus standing army would be on a completely different level.

we know Hamas committed war crimes. i had to see the baby stuff to believe it. it's true. Hamas executed a baby in his crib. no excuse no matter what. whoever did that and/or authorized it should die an unspeakably painful death like on the rack. i'm not overly emotional but found it extremely painful just to look at the photo of an infant slaughtered in his bassinet.

but, one war crime does not excuse another. Israel needs to follow international law. no exceptions. indictments for Netanyahu and his henchmen should follow if they commit war crimes like collective punishments, and continue it even after warnings.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...trophe-in-gaza

i've never liked Netanyahu; he laughs at the 2 state solution, when it's not funny, and is the only equitable long-term solution. if he commits war crimes by his orders in Gaza, he should be indicted and tried in the ICC when this is all said and done. Hamas is not Gaza, and Gaza is not Hamas.

Hamas should also be prosecuted for its war crimes. there is no excuse for their conduct.

former MI-6 head (that's Britain's CIA and the inspiration for James Bond) says Hamas has laid a trap for the IDF, as fighting street by street, house by house, is a total clusterfuck. maybe he's right; and maybe he's wrong. but Israel needs to wrap up the airstrikes asap. too many civilians are dying.

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/...ed%20Palestine.

[michaelrayab]

Pxmcc that was one of the best takes I have heard from anyone. Fair, levelheaded with wisdom sprinkled in.
As many in the know have called it, should a ground invasion occur ( once begun with no quick ending) this is going to get ugly fast.

[Michael8219]

Initial US COVID shutdowns started March 17-31, 2020. May 18, 2020, Governor Abbott issued Executive Order GA-23 to reopen the economy in Texas.

42 months later: November 18, 2023 (+ or -)…could be as early as October 19, 2023.

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

US joins the defense of Israel due to shelling from Syria. Iran, Russia, and North Korea join in. US Allies join the US and Israel. China jumps in….

http://npasyria.com/en/105448/

If you know what the significance of the Euphrates drying up means, you know.

[DEAR_JOHN]

Look, I'm as red, white, and blue as anybody on this board, however I'm also very cautious.

We had technological advantages in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, but look how things turned out. We 'tied' in Korea, lost in Vietnam, and left billions of good equipment in Afghanistan as we left with our tails between our legs.

Black Hawk Down was based on truth, showing that 2,000 men armed with AK47's can beat the hell out of 200 men with technological advantages. Once the air strikes are done, once the Navy and artillary is done, and when tanks can't be used, it's man vs man and usually the army with the most soldiers wins.

Sorry, but just because we have great air force, ground forces, and navy doesn't mean going in anywhere is a sure win.

[pxmcc]

to that i say: bahahaha..

first, DJ, i agree with you 100%. easy to get sucked in to quagmires. getting out? different story..

so Netanyahu has stated his mission is to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth. and that is silly to the point of being hilarious.

lets ignore Hamas' war crimes for a second. not because they aren't heinous; they are. not because they aren't capital offenses; they are.

but what does Hamas stand for that can never be defeated? the proposition that a bunch of ragtag blokes with makeshift scavenged weapons and motorized paragliders could take on one of the most hallowed militaries in the world, and knock them senseless. you think you can beat that with plenty of bullets and tanks? hell naw. you might as well empty the Atlantic with your cupped hands, or save the Titantic with a mop and bucket.

every Hamas operator knew he was going to die on that operation. why would they do it? straight path to heaven. and you're going to destroy Hamas' legacy with bullets and Bradley fighting vehicles supplied by the U.S.? hell naw.

you can kill a Hamas fighter (terrorist) no doubt. what about his infant son who luckily escaped death from Israeli airstrikes? killing him is a war crime punishable by death. and when that infant grows up and learns the IDF killed his father, he says, "That cannot go unanswered." and whether he calls himself Hamas or Islamic Jihad or a freaking Scottsman under Robert the Bruce, he will avenge himself against the perps, or die trying.

Israel trying to wipe out Hamas will only produce a new generation of killers, those who lost their fathers in an implausible uprising against their overlords, which has and will continue to rule an apartheid regime denying Palestinians their basic human rights.

what should Israel do? set some narrow limited objectives such as capturing and/or killing senior Hamas officials who planned the incursion.

set up talks with the PA (which runs the West Bank) and create a Palestinian state from almost the 1967 borders. (international law calls for a complete return of occupied lands to the 1967 borders, which may be a bridge too far.)

this creates a schism on the Palestinian side. those who renounce violence are good, those who do not are as good as dead.

will Israel do any of this under Netanyahu? hell naw. but 10 years hence, Israel is gonna wish they did a land for peace deal back in 2023.

Hamas isn't the people who run it. Hamas is an idea, the David who stood against Goliath, and in round 1, kicked Goliath's teeth out. it doesnt matter if they lose the fight. all 1500 knew death was coming for them. and yet they advanced, and did the impossible: David stole Round 1 from Goliath. no amount of carrier strike forces or rpgs or AR-15s (M16s) will change that dynamic. all the militants are ready to die, which gives Israel way fewer pragmatic paths to victory.

maybe they're taking the bait in traps set by Hamas. we'll know soon enough, i say..

[pxmcc]

Israel had quite a bit of good will and sympathy around the world from Hamas' heinous attacks. but the continued airstrikes with large numbers of Palestinian civilians being killed and wounded are turning international public opinion against Israel, and may offer an excuse for Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria to get involved. sure we have the equivalent of 4 carrier strike groups near Israel and Iran/Syria, but there is no such thing as a clean war. war is hell, pure and simple.

if Israel has proof that the Gaza hospital hit today, killing hundreds, was from an Islamic Jihad missile that went astray and not from an Israeli airstrike, they need to submit that proof to independent arbitrators asap.

with that story as the headline, leaders in the Islamic world won't even meet with Biden.

at this point, the most important deliverable for Biden's trip is to create a humanitarian corridor into Gaza, preferably from Egypt, and get aid delivered to innocent civilians in Gaza who are caught in the crossfire and are deprived of the basic necessities of life by Israel's blockade, including food, water, fuel, electricity, and medicine. if that requires U.S. Marines or sailors on the ground in consultation with the IDF, so be it. we have the 2 carrier groups on standby, plus an amphibious assault ship, the USS Bataan, steaming to Israel with battle-hardened Marines on board and MH-60 helicopters (similar to the black hawk) that can deliver relief and aid to suffering Palestinian civilians. and right now pallets of supplies are sitting unused in Egypt, and that is simply unacceptable.

it's one thing for Israel to defend itself; it's another for it to turn self-defense into an offensive war, which is mainly killing more civilians than militants.

if Israel is going to do a ground invasion, they need to wrap up airstrikes and get on with it, or it won't be long before Hezbollah, Iran and Syria will get involved, plus whatever allies they can bring with them to the table. and that's a bigger clusterfuck than even the present clusterfuck.

Biden's other goal should be evacuating Americans stuck in Gaza. getting the American hostages held by Hamas back is also a worthy goal but i doubt it would be doable in the short term. for one thing, we have no idea where they're being held, which makes a special operation extracting them not possible at the moment.

it would be great for Biden to bring up the 2-state solution as the best preventative for what happened and Israel's long-term security, but i'm sure Netanyahu will shut down that convo quickly. he has never been interested in a 2-state solution, and look where his approach got him.

my understanding is that Israeli voters are as fed up with Netanyahu as they are with Hamas, and give him quite a bit of responsibility for not preventing the attacks. he got heads-up warnings from the U.S. and Egypt, and apparently ignored them.

[pxmcc]

Biden got the delivery of humanitarian aid for civilians into Gaza, but no evacuation of civilians from Gaza into Egypt. i can sort of understand Egypt's position, though. why should they be stuck with 1 or 2 million refugees when the humanitarian disaster is caused by continuous Israeli airstrikes and their complete blockade of Gaza by Israel of food, water, etc.

I think Biden could have gotten more but the hospital explosion was just bad luck. the Arab world blames Israel but the evidence supports that it was a misfire of an Islamic Jihad rocket intended for Israel.

[boardman]

[pxmcc]

^^indeed..

you've been playing hooky, Boardman..

poor Dear_John has had to deal with an over-abundance of libtards coming out of the woodwork..

[DEAR_JOHN]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

poor Dear_John has had to deal with an over-abundance of libtards coming out of the woodwork..

That's OK, I see how our country going to shit and I know I didn't vote for any of these progressive anarchists. Every time biden, his crooked DOJ and FBI cover his and his idiot son's corrupt asses, people die due to things happening down on the border, people going broke, housing starts come down to zero because the interest rates go from 3% to 8%, us giving away trillions of dollars, you libtards own all of it, not me. So the next time a city like Portland burns, you libtards can have another circle jerk and vote for the pivot man, that's those who know a man from a woman.

[NordicJag]

Originally Posted by DEAR_JOHN

That's OK, I see how our country going to shit and I know I didn't vote for any of these progressive anarchists. Every time biden, his crooked DOJ and FBI cover his and his idiot son's corrupt asses, people die due to things happening down on the border, people going broke, housing starts come down to zero because the interest rates go from 3% to 8%, us giving away trillions of dollars, you libtards own all of it, not me. So the next time a city like Portland burns, you libtards can have another circle jerk and vote for the pivot man, that's those who know a man from a woman.

Where is this truth of which you speak? You keep harping about the crooked DOJ and FBI but have yet to post any evidence of this. You keep mentioning that the situation at the border is causing deaths, but the fact is that most of whatever it could be that is causing these deaths is coming across the border through official border checkpoints and not being brought over by illegals. px, USASoldier, MrMeat, and myself keep posting truths and you continue to not believe them. In fact, after we post them, you make little or no effort to discredit them.