Ok, ok, I must ask!

[Seomon]

There is a person on here who is a complete ditz (IMHO) and seems not to get it, making me think perhaps I am not getting it... So I put it out there to my esteemed fellow eccie-ers:

Say you have this friend who is UTR. Say you're not sure if this friend wants to remain UTR but you decide to post a review, not posting any contact info and virtually no helpful info in this review. The reason why you are not posting this info is because again you're not sure if said UTR wants this info out...So you take it upon yourself to have others PM you for UTR's info judging for yourself if these people are worthy of UTR's info (did I mention that UTR knows nothing about this, presumably? ).

So ladies, if you were UTR, would you be happy about having a review posted without your permission as a UTR? Would you be pleased that this individual took it upon him/herself to screen for you too without your permission?

Fellas, does what I describe above make any sense? Would you have done it? And if so, could you tell me your reasoning because to me, it makes no sense. Would you feel comfortable engaging with UTR with little info about what to expect, working through someone you don't know?

As Neo said in the Matrix: Help! I need a little help! Hopefully, just like in the movie, a wizard will reach out a scream, "Door!"

[Carlie]

Originally Posted by Seomon

So ladies, if you were UTR, would you be happy about having a review posted without your permission as a UTR? Would you be pleased that this individual took it upon him/herself to screen for you too without your permission?

Hell no, I would not be happy... screening for a girl "unbeknownst" to her, seems like a pimp move to me.

If a girl is UTR, that is her choice. Who she chooses to see, is her choice. How she choses her clients, (screens) is her choice. At any point how would it be ok
to expose her to anyone, specifically people one only knows on the internet, not personally.

I am truly hoping that this is a hypothetical situation, If its not, It is a total pimp move, and it should be considered an alert on the gent.

Gentlemen and Ladies alike should be made aware of this behavior, it is a slippery slope to much more than a misdemeanor.

Carlie

[topnotchmassage]

Originally Posted by Carlie

Hell no, I would not be happy... screening for a girl "unbeknownst" to her, seems like a pimp move to me.

If a girl is UTR, that is her choice. Who she chooses to see, is her choice. How she choses her clients, (screens) is her choice. At any point how would it be ok
to expose her to anyone, specifically people one only knows on the internet, not personally.

I am truly hoping that this is a hypothetical situation, If its not, It is a total pimp move, and it should be considered an alert on the gent.

Gentlemen and Ladies alike should be made aware of this behavior, it is a slippery slope to much more than a misdemeanor.

Carlie

I agree

[Sens55]

Seoman,

I actually was thinking of posting a thread along these lines today as well. I have been pondering the situation you described and parts of it bother me to no end. That being said, I have learned that the "UTR" girl in question posts on Craiglist. So it's not exactly UTR....

However, as someone who sees mostly UTR girls and have brought several out, I have some very strong opinions on this. And I'm not above saying my opinions may be flawed or even flat wrong. But here are a few things I believe.

First, if a UTR girl is truly UTR, then it is up to HER to decide if she wants to come out or not. I don't even pass on her phone number to ANYONE unless she specifically says it's OK. For the vast majority of these girls they may only see a few guys. And they don't mind a good referral, but only from guys that they know. And, the only guys I would give the information to are guys I personally know. I know enough about them to know that their needs fit what she has to offer so that both parties should benefit. It doesn't do anyone any good if the guy only wants to date skinny barbie dolls and she's got a little extra padding or that he likes Greek and she doesn't offer it. And, even then, I only exchange their information and back away. It's THEIR business after that, not mine. But the girl will know IN ADVANCE, and have given their explicit consent for me to do so, or that number will never see the light of day.

If a girl DOES decide she wants to come completely out, then I feel a responsibility to at least help them before doing so. Most of these girls have no idea how to deal with screening, or talking to guys to keep from saying too much or not to go to certain areas on outcall. And while I will not do it for them, I will show them where THEY can get the information and then THEY have to do the research. They need to be responsible for their own business and not dependent on me. But I do have a responsibility, if I'm the one bringing them out, to make sure they are aware of the dangers and are making the right decision for them. To not do so, or to lie to them to get them to come out, or to out them without their knowledge or consent is, to me, truly atrocious behavior. You're putting this girls very life, or at least livelihood, in your hands. She needs to be able to make an educated, conscious decision to come out. Anything else is just wrong.

But I can prepare them for things like coming out, you will be the "flavor of the week", your phone will blow up. You'll get the guys who are "collectors" wanting to sample the new flavor and move on. But you'll also find guys you click with, and those are the guys who can become your regulars and things will settle down. Having them know this up front can at least prepare them for what is going to happen. Even then it can be extremely overwhelming for a girl that might have been seeing a guy or two a week to have 10 guys call or email in one afternoon wanting to see her that day.

Again, at no point have I ever made a date FOR a girl, taken a dime for my assistance or even asked for a discount for service. That's just not my style (not to be confused with a girl that gladly offers it in thanks...which is a wonderful, if rare, gift). This is their business, their decision, their safety, their lives. But done right, everyone can win. Done improperly and things can go very badly. But outing someone without their consent is bullshit, plain and simple.

[ez2plz]

Originally Posted by Sens55

Seoman,

I actually was thinking of posting a thread along these lines today as well. I have been pondering the situation you described and parts of it bother me to no end. That being said, I have learned that the "UTR" girl in question posts on Craiglist. So it's not exactly UTR....

However, as someone who sees mostly UTR girls and have brought several out, I have some very strong opinions on this. And I'm not above saying my opinions may be flawed or even flat wrong. But here are a few things I believe.

First, if a UTR girl is truly UTR, then it is up to HER to decide if she wants to come out or not. I don't even pass on her phone number to ANYONE unless she specifically says it's OK. For the vast majority of these girls they may only see a few guys. And they don't mind a good referral, but only from guys that they know. And, the only guys I would give the information to are guys I personally know. I know enough about them to know that their needs fit what she has to offer so that both parties should benefit. It doesn't do anyone any good if the guy only wants to date skinny barbie dolls and she's got a little extra padding or that he likes Greek and she doesn't offer it. And, even then, I only exchange their information and back away. It's THEIR business after that, not mine. But the girl will know IN ADVANCE, and have given their explicit consent for me to do so, or that number will never see the light of day.

If a girl DOES decide she wants to come completely out, then I feel a responsibility to at least help them before doing so. Most of these girls have no idea how to deal with screening, or talking to guys to keep from saying too much or not to go to certain areas on outcall. And while I will not do it for them, I will show them where THEY can get the information and then THEY have to do the research. They need to be responsible for their own business and not dependent on me. But I do have a responsibility, if I'm the one bringing them out, to make sure they are aware of the dangers and are making the right decision for them. To not do so, or to lie to them to get them to come out, or to out them without their knowledge or consent is, to me, truly atrocious behavior. You're putting this girls very life, or at least livelihood, in your hands. She needs to be able to make an educated, conscious decision to come out. Anything else is just wrong.

But I can prepare them for things like coming out, you will be the "flavor of the week", your phone will blow up. You'll get the guys who are "collectors" wanting to sample the new flavor and move on. But you'll also find guys you click with, and those are the guys who can become your regulars and things will settle down. Having them know this up front can at least prepare them for what is going to happen. Even then it can be extremely overwhelming for a girl that might have been seeing a guy or two a week to have 10 guys call or email in one afternoon wanting to see her that day.

Again, at no point have I ever made a date FOR a girl, taken a dime for my assistance or even asked for a discount for service. That's just not my style (not to be confused with a girl that gladly offers it in thanks...which is a wonderful, if rare, gift). This is their business, their decision, their safety, their lives. But done right, everyone can win. Done improperly and things can go very badly. But outing someone without their consent is bullshit, plain and simple.

Very well thought out and totally makes sense to me. Sounds like the right way to do it, and makes the "example" look that much more ridiculous.

[malwoody]

Originally Posted by Sens55

Seoman,

I actually was thinking of posting a thread along these lines today as well. I have been pondering the situation you described and parts of it bother me to no end. That being said, I have learned that the "UTR" girl in question posts on Craiglist. So it's not exactly UTR....

However, as someone who sees mostly UTR girls and have brought several out, I have some very strong opinions on this. And I'm not above saying my opinions may be flawed or even flat wrong. But here are a few things I believe.

First, if a UTR girl is truly UTR, then it is up to HER to decide if she wants to come out or not. I don't even pass on her phone number to ANYONE unless she specifically says it's OK. For the vast majority of these girls they may only see a few guys. And they don't mind a good referral, but only from guys that they know. And, the only guys I would give the information to are guys I personally know. I know enough about them to know that their needs fit what she has to offer so that both parties should benefit. It doesn't do anyone any good if the guy only wants to date skinny barbie dolls and she's got a little extra padding or that he likes Greek and she doesn't offer it. And, even then, I only exchange their information and back away. It's THEIR business after that, not mine. But the girl will know IN ADVANCE, and have given their explicit consent for me to do so, or that number will never see the light of day.

If a girl DOES decide she wants to come completely out, then I feel a responsibility to at least help them before doing so. Most of these girls have no idea how to deal with screening, or talking to guys to keep from saying too much or not to go to certain areas on outcall. And while I will not do it for them, I will show them where THEY can get the information and then THEY have to do the research. They need to be responsible for their own business and not dependent on me. But I do have a responsibility, if I'm the one bringing them out, to make sure they are aware of the dangers and are making the right decision for them. To not do so, or to lie to them to get them to come out, or to out them without their knowledge or consent is, to me, truly atrocious behavior. You're putting this girls very life, or at least livelihood, in your hands. She needs to be able to make an educated, conscious decision to come out. Anything else is just wrong.

But I can prepare them for things like coming out, you will be the "flavor of the week", your phone will blow up. You'll get the guys who are "collectors" wanting to sample the new flavor and move on. But you'll also find guys you click with, and those are the guys who can become your regulars and things will settle down. Having them know this up front can at least prepare them for what is going to happen. Even then it can be extremely overwhelming for a girl that might have been seeing a guy or two a week to have 10 guys call or email in one afternoon wanting to see her that day.

Again, at no point have I ever made a date FOR a girl, taken a dime for my assistance or even asked for a discount for service. That's just not my style (not to be confused with a girl that gladly offers it in thanks...which is a wonderful, if rare, gift). This is their business, their decision, their safety, their lives. But done right, everyone can win. Done improperly and things can go very badly. But outing someone without their consent is bullshit, plain and simple.

Works for me..

[Allie_Kat]

If she's a member of this board, she should be made aware that if she doesn't want reviews, she can ask the mods to put up a no review policy for her. That will protect her somewhat from gentlemen that don't respect her wishes to remain truly UTR.
You should never give out a UTR ladies information (ie phone number or e-mail) without her consent. It doesn't matter if the people receiving the info are personal friends of yours. ESPECIALLY if it's her personal phone number, remember not all providers are savvy enough to have a separate "banana phone" when they are newbies.
I believe the only exception to this comment would be rip offs, scam artists and dangerous encounters. Then you SHOULD post her info so others will know to stay away.

[Guest090920]

Originally Posted by Sens55

That being said, I have learned that the "UTR" girl in question posts on Craiglist. So it's not exactly UTR....

Interesting development....more the guy in question failed to disclose. Motives?

Well said, Sens!

[Sens55]

Originally Posted by Allie_Kat

If she's a member of this board, she should be made aware that if she doesn't want reviews, she can ask the mods to put up a no review policy for her. That will protect her somewhat from gentlemen that don't respect her wishes to remain truly UTR.
You should never give out a UTR ladies information (ie phone number or e-mail) without her consent. It doesn't matter if the people receiving the info are personal friends of yours. ESPECIALLY if it's her personal phone number, remember not all providers are savvy enough to have a separate "banana phone" when they are newbies.
I believe the only exception to this comment would be rip offs, scam artists and dangerous encounters. Then you SHOULD post her info so others will know to stay away.

Allie, as you know, most UTR girls are not members of this board. Most are truly clueless that these types of boards even exist. No way for them to go to the mods because they don't even know we are here. Can you imagine the shock of finding out someone's posting about what you did in an Internet board you never knew existed without your consent?

And you're right, the vast majority of these girls are using their real phones. They meet guys like me in regular daily life and have no idea of the measures they need to take to protect themselves once they come out. In many instances I know the girls real name, real phone number, real home address and sometimes their kids, room mates or others. They have no clue that once they enter this hobby they need to shield a lot of that information for their safety.

Some of these girls have a LOT to lose. A LOT! One girl I know would lose her kids to her ex-husband in a heartbeat if she were outed. The scale she's at, it's not really an issue. But if her info leaked (even if it weren't me leaking it) and she lost her kids...I don't know what I would do. It would truly tragic. As is, she's a happy single mom making a few dollars on the side and having fun. As she said, it beats single's bars. But again, having that information carries a LOT of responsibility until THEY choose to come out.

[Omahan]

Originally Posted by Seomon

There is a person on here who is a complete ditz (IMHO) and seems not to get it, making me think perhaps I am not getting it... So I put it out there to my esteemed fellow eccie-ers:

Say you have this friend who is UTR. Say you're not sure if this friend wants to remain UTR but you decide to post a review, not posting any contact info and virtually no helpful info in this review. The reason why you are not posting this info is because again you're not sure if said UTR wants this info out...So you take it upon yourself to have others PM you for UTR's info judging for yourself if these people are worthy of UTR's info (did I mention that UTR knows nothing about this, presumably? ).

So ladies, if you were UTR, would you be happy about having a review posted without your permission as a UTR? Would you be pleased that this individual took it upon him/herself to screen for you too without your permission?

Fellas, does what I describe above make any sense? Would you have done it? And if so, could you tell me your reasoning because to me, it makes no sense. Would you feel comfortable engaging with UTR with little info about what to expect, working through someone you don't know?

As Neo said in the Matrix: Help! I need a little help! Hopefully, just like in the movie, a wizard will reach out a scream, "Door!"

First, I would not assume he doesn't have her permission. It looks to me like he is either advertising for her or pimping for her.

Second, I think you should have taken this up with a mod rather than starting a thread about it. It seems that the purpose of this thread may just be to stir up qa lynch mob.

[Sens55]

O,

Hopefully this won't be a lynch mob. But I do think a healthy discussion about protocol for this situation is beneficial. Maybe because I've brought out a few UTR girls, I get several PM's from guys saying things like "dude, I have this UTR girl you HAVE to see..." But if I ask them if he has HER permission to contact me. Often times the answer is no, or "not really, but I knew you were OK" and things like that. But I tell them it's NOT OK. Even if they know me personally, it's not OK to give me her info if she's not given them permission.

So to your point, maybe we can steer away from the specifics of this situation, which seems to have run its course and focus on info that may help everyone that may face these types of situations.

[Allie_Kat]

"There is a person on here who is a complete ditz (IMHO) and seems not to get it, making me think perhaps I am not getting it... So I put it out there to my esteemed fellow eccie-ers"

This is why I thought she MIGHT be on this board. Just letting her know, that if she IS a part of the ECCIE community, she has certain rights on this forum.
Passing out someones phone number without their permission is unacceptable either way you look it.

[Sens55]

I believe he was referencing the poster, not the girl.

[Allie_Kat]

I quoted Seomon in his very first sentence on this thread. He is the OP. The continuation of the sentence leads me to believe he is talking about a provider that may be on ECCIE, and not speaking about himself only. Hopefully he can clear that up for us...

[Sens55]

Yes. I know who you were referencing. But Seoman was referencing this thread http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=260943

Get it?