"We Are the Terrorists" Eyewitness to Collateral Murder Video Speaks Out

[CuteOldGuy]

Amazing and heartbreaking story of an American hero. This is the guy who tried to save the children under attack by the military in Iraq exposed by the Wikileaks tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE7xGrsWZi0

[JD Barleycorn]

I have many reservations with the source and their motivations. I remember this incident. The pilots claimed that a cameraman was holding what they believed was a missile launcher. An army is composed of many millions of individuals and among them, like in the "real" world, you have some bad people. It is a shame that these officers were so immature to think of this as a video game. By this time in the war attacks on helicopters were fairly rare so it is hard to say that they were suffering from the strain of constant combat. Going to war, killing people is not easy and you can't afford to second guess yourself and feel remorse at the time. I am sure that many of our soldiers thought of World War II as "cowboys and Indians" when they started. Using the footage as the only guide the helo crew should have been investigated for abuse and if it was shown that they used poor judgement then court martialed for the authorities to render a judgement.

Like I said, I am not crazy about the source. Sounds like that they have an agenda. Seems likely that they would not show anything that would not help them. I know we disagree with how wars are fought but I think it is more important to safeguard the lives of Americans than enemy soldiers. US policy has always been concerned with collateral damage but individual acts occur. It is hard to punish soldiers for regular poor judgement after being thrust into a terribly horrible situation by many of the same officers who will stand in judgement. The judgement of a soldier must be shown to be completey abhorrent and an afront to human nature.

[CuteOldGuy]

I don't fault the soldiers. I fault the system that produced them, and got us into this utterly pointless conflict in the first place.

[JD Barleycorn]

I wonder what you would have us do? War is brutal and men (and now women) must submit to being brutal sometimes. For some of the survivors the aftermath is worse the original actions.

[CuteOldGuy]

Uh, I wouldn't have had us go into Iraq in the first place. What was the point? What was our overriding definition of victory? Where was our exit strategy? What national security interest were we protecting? Where was the Congressional declaration of war? Did we win, and if so, what did we win?

Iraq was one of the epic stupidest decisions.

[JD Barleycorn]

The stated purpose behind the invasion of Iraq was to prevent Saddam Hussein from accomplishing his stated goal of getting nuclear weapons. The secondary goal was to establish a bastion of American influence in the Middle East. This second goal had been talked about for many years. The US was a stabilizing influence in Europe during the 50s, 60s, and 70s and the idea was to stablize the Middle East and to have a forward base to operate from.

Congress had voted for the use of force to prevent any further anymore terrorist attacks. They are on record. The question arises about the intelligence that lead to the war. The democrats like to say that Bush either lied or cherry picked the evidence. They forget that Clinton used the same intelligence in 1998 to launch cruise missile attacks on Hussein supported by the words of John Kerry, John Edwards, and Al Gore. Every intelligence agency in the world agreed that Hussein was trying to reconstitute his weapons program. Military intelligence is not an exact science. We went to full scale war in Vietnam over the Gulf of Tonkin, we lost many hundreds of planes and thousands of men trying to stop the German atomic program that was not the threat that we thought it was, and we were convinced that Japan would never attack Pearl Harbor, the Philippines maybe, but not Pearl Harbor. Bush went to war with the best information that he had with the vocal support of the democrats. The war ended quickly but the peace was a problem. We were convinced that the people would rise up and welcome us but we forgot about the tribal aspect of the war. They may not have liked Hussein but he was Sunni and they feared the backlash of the Kurdish and the Shi'a.
The definition of victory was the overthrow of Hussein, which was accomplished, the destruction of the Republican Guard, which was somewhat accomplished, and the securing of any and all WMDs. There is still credible evidence that the WMDs were flown to Syria and the concern that the US has with that regime gives some measure of credit to the claims. The exit strategy was to get a trained miltary to support an elected representative government modeled on a constitution. How long this would take was the problem. A second part of the exit strategy was the agreement for a long term base in the Middle East from which to respond to any terrorist attack. We didn't get that.

Was it an epic stupid decision? I am sure you've read "The March of Folly" but it is still a little early to tell the result. Occupying Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Pacific Islands could be considered a stupid decision. We were attacked in the Pacific by the Japanese because we were in the Philippines, we supported a corrupt bastard in Cuba, and we have been taken advantage of in PR for years. What did we gain? Bananas? Cigars? Ricky Ricardo? Sometimes you have to make the best of the situation. We could have invaded Iraq, made off with all the gold and treasures, and forced them to sell us their oil at pennies on the dollar. We could have left a large garrison to ensure their cooperation but then we would have been exactly as the democrats said we were. We don't know what they would have done but they did vote for war so we have to assume that they would have invaded as well.

[redriverronin]

This whole war had one purpose to make the owners of the fed even more ridiculously rich and keep people occupied on chasing ghosts.

[Jackie S]

Isn't it so much cleaner, and less dramatic, when you just drop a drone right into the middle of the bunch.

Of course, the people on the recieving end are still just as dead, regardless whether the gunner is a pilot in a chopper, or a soldier with a joystick in a bunker.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Amazing and heartbreaking story of an American hero. This is the guy who tried to save the children under attack by the military in Iraq exposed by the Wikileaks tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE7xGrsWZi0

Remember the saying "war is hell"?

[CuteOldGuy]

War is hell, you are correct for a chance EkimEva. That is why we must avoid stupid, pointless wars. Like Iraq and Afghanistan.

[bojulay]

Bush thought we would go into Iraq, kick ass and take names, and
make it back by the weekend to have a beer and catch the game.

A simple minded perspective of things.

I have never really bought into any of the conspiracy ideas about the war.
Bush just had that simple minded bravado mentality that got a lot of people
killed, in a bar room you usually only get a bloody nose.

That is mainly what kicked the whole thing off anyway.
After that is where it gets more complicated.

It's the whole thing of setting something into motion.
Complications and then out of control life of it's own.

[oden]

The Middle East has and will be for our generation a place that we need a presence. Now control, think south Chicago.

[JD Barleycorn]

Bojulay, that is just not true. Bush warned the war on terrorism would take time maybe decades as would the changing of Iraq. Why do you think he wanted the Status of Forces agreement? He knew, and said, that we would be there for many years perhaps decades.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Bojulay, that is just not true. Bush warned the war on terrorism would take time maybe decades as would the changing of Iraq. Why do you think he wanted the Status of Forces agreement? He knew, and said, that we would be there for many years perhaps decades.

I was speaking more about the attitude, the naivete of not
taking into consideration all the costs and consequences.

That great divide between belief, action, and outcome.

Yeah I think Bush was covering all of his bases with the
politic speak, but he had no real understanding of what
he was really getting into.

Impulsiveness not intelligence. That's what most of our war on terrorism has been.
And the cost has been terrible so far with a lot of needless destruction.

Too little action at times. Should 911 ever have happened in the first place?
And too much or the wrong at others, a pretty poor record so far.

A rude education we have gotten dealing with radical Islam.

[Yssup Rider]

BSwine, when are you going to stop blowing Dubya?

I think you sucked every bit of sense outta him before his Inauguration.