President Trump (Operation Warp Speed), Pfizer and Moderna Saved 1 million Lives and 10.3 million people from hospitalization! And that was just through November!

[Tiny]

That's how many lives just in the USA were saved by the COVID vaccines by the estimate of Eric C. Schneider, M.D., and his co-authors, described in this paper:

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pub...any-deaths-and

[Jacuzzme]

LOL. What a bunch of horseshit. Nobody could possibly know if a vax helped, people just got better on their own or just didn’t get it. The ‘but muh less symptoms’ is just as dumb, it’s impossible to differentiate. I’m unvaxed, got covid, took NyQuil for a few days and am fine like 99.9% of others who got it. The piece is unadulterated propaganda.

[Yssup Rider]

Making progress. At least now they’re acknowledging the virus exists.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

LOL. What a bunch of horseshit. Nobody could possibly know if a vax helped, people just got better on their own or just didn’t get it. The ‘but muh less symptoms’ is just as dumb, it’s impossible to differentiate. I’m unvaxed, got covid, took NyQuil for a few days and am fine like 99.9% of others who got it. The piece is unadulterated propaganda.

99.2% were surviving before we had the vaccines. To date 880,000 people died of COVID in the USA. That’s more Americans than have died in combat in all wars combined.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Making progress. At least now they’re acknowledging the virus exists.

Jacuzzme still thinks it used to be no more lethal than the flu. Now thankfully, in no small part because of the vaccines, he may be right.

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by Tiny

99.2% were surviving before we had the vaccines. To date 880,000 people died of COVID in the USA. That’s more Americans than have died in combat in all wars combined.

So? It still doesn’t mean that the vax is responsible for anything, or nothing. In fact, with omi, in my personal experience, the vax makes it worse. 16 hours in a car after fighting huge crowds at Disney, 2 unvaxed, 2 vaxed, all got covid. Both pure bloods, myself included, had mild symptoms and the 2 vaxed are still sick AF. Poor kid and her hub can’t walk across the room without getting winded, and they’re both young and in great shape.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Here are FACTS from the state of Washington. :

Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are

• 4 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 11 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Doc...Vaccinated.pdf

"Hospitalization rates confirm COVID vaccines' benefits
Despite what some people say, recent hospitalization numbers do not prove the vaccines are not useful, quite the opposite."

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...cines-benefits

COVID-NET: Hospitalization Rates by Vaccination Status in Adults

CDC’s Coronavirus Disease 2019-Associated Hospitalization Surveillance Network (COVID-NET) shows that rates of COVID-19-associated hospitalizations in December 2021 were markedly higher in unvaccinated adults compared to fully vaccinated adults who have received additional or booster doses of a COVID-19 vaccine. Among adults ages 50–64 years, the COVID-19-associated hospitalization rate in December among unvaccinated persons was 44 times higher than among those who were fully vaccinated and received an additional or booster dose. Among adults ages 65 years and older, compared to persons who were fully vaccinated and received an additional or booster dose, rates of COVID-19-associated hospitalizations were 49 times higher among unvaccinated adults.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...iew/index.html

The data is out there. The vaccines work in preventing people who have contracted Covid from requiring hospitalization and avoiding death.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

So? It still doesn’t mean that the vax is responsible for anything, or nothing. In fact, with omi, in my personal experience, the vax makes it worse. 16 hours in a car after fighting huge crowds at Disney, 2 unvaxed, 2 vaxed, all got covid. Both pure bloods, myself included, had mild symptoms and the 2 vaxed are still sick AF. Poor kid and her hub can’t walk across the room without getting winded, and they’re both young and in great shape.

Your story is anecdotal. SpeedRacer's post, above, is not.

I know 3 people who were vaccinated and got COVID the last two weeks. All had an easy time of it. The one who had it the easiest, only a mild cough, was the oldest (mid 60's) and in the worst physical condition. He also was the only one who got the booster.

It's possible immunity from previous infection, like what you've got, is superior to immunity from vaccination. The jury's out on that for the Omicron variant though. Either way I'd a lot rather get immunity through vaccinations than through getting sick.

[Jacuzzme]

If you believe ANYTHING coming out of a government agency, given their recent track record, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

LOL. What a bunch of horseshit. Nobody could possibly know if a vax helped, people just got better on their own or just didn’t get it. The ‘but muh less symptoms’ is just as dumb, it’s impossible to differentiate. I’m unvaxed, got covid, took NyQuil for a few days and am fine like 99.9% of others who got it. The piece is unadulterated propaganda.

Are you arguing against science? Sounds like it to me. What are you? Some kind of anti-vaxer?

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Here are FACTS from the state of Washington. :

Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are

• 4 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
• 11 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Doc...Vaccinated.pdf

"Hospitalization rates confirm COVID vaccines' benefits
Despite what some people say, recent hospitalization numbers do not prove the vaccines are not useful, quite the opposite."

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...cines-benefits

COVID-NET: Hospitalization Rates by Vaccination Status in Adults

CDC’s Coronavirus Disease 2019-Associated Hospitalization Surveillance Network (COVID-NET) shows that rates of COVID-19-associated hospitalizations in December 2021 were markedly higher in unvaccinated adults compared to fully vaccinated adults who have received additional or booster doses of a COVID-19 vaccine. Among adults ages 50–64 years, the COVID-19-associated hospitalization rate in December among unvaccinated persons was 44 times higher than among those who were fully vaccinated and received an additional or booster dose. Among adults ages 65 years and older, compared to persons who were fully vaccinated and received an additional or booster dose, rates of COVID-19-associated hospitalizations were 49 times higher among unvaccinated adults.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...iew/index.html

The data is out there. The vaccines work in preventing people who have contracted Covid from requiring hospitalization and avoiding death.

I will call BS on some of this; four times more likely than what? 11 times more likely than what? We need a baseline for that to make any sense. If the virus was deadly with a 50% death rate then 400% would be impossible. However, the death rate (depending on other health factors) is about .5 percent. So, a 400% increased likelihood of death is actually 2 percent. I can yawn at that. For those stats to mean anything, we need that baseline.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

I will call BS on some of this; four times more likely than what? 11 times more likely than what?

Come on. You are smart enough to understand what is being stated.

For every vaccinated person 65 years or older who has died from Covid, 11 unvaccinated people have died.

For every vaccinated person 65 years or older who has contracted Covid, 4 unvaccinated people have contracted Covid.

If you have any statistics that refute these statements, please provide them.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

If you believe ANYTHING coming out of a government agency, given their recent track record, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

People tend to believe statistics from a given source when they support their opinions. When those statistics do no support their opinions, they are routinely rejected.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

I will call BS on some of this; four times more likely than what? 11 times more likely than what? We need a baseline for that to make any sense.
If the virus was deadly with a 50% death rate then 400% would be impossible. However, the death rate (depending on other health factors) is about .5 percent. So, a 400% increased likelihood of death is actually 2 percent. I can yawn at that. For those stats to mean anything, we need that baseline.

Figure 3 in the link below will give you a good, but dated, baseline - the infection fatality rate for unvaccinated (and previously uninfected) people:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3328...id=fig-3-uid-2

It was around 1% for people 65 years old and 10% for people in their 80's. So using SpeedRacer's ratio of 11, vaccines would drag the probability of death down to .09% for someone who's 65 and about 0.9% for an 85 year old.

That was at the tail end of 2020 though. Since then we've gotten monoclonal antibody treatments, which unfortunately aren't that effective against Omicron, and the Pfizer pill, which is effective but in short supply. The Delta variant was more lethal than what we had in 2020, I think. The Omicron variant is less lethal, but there's probably not enough data out yet to say how much less.

[Jacuzzme]

I tend not to believe things from sources that have been continually wrong, if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt. As a cynic, ‘wrong’ is probably an incorrect adjective. Get 20 jabs if you want to though, like the mental cases trying for another gift card, it’s a (mostly) free country still.