Question of "Race" and perception

[hardbod55]

This question is mostly for the ladies although I know some guys will chime in. I am half Trinidadian/PuertoRican. People from other countries or are well-travelled usually notice the Caribbean heritage. However, other people, particularly American view me as
strictly AA initially. Is the perception more important than the reality in judging someone merely by the color of their skin? Also do other factors play into the image? Yes, now it's two questions..

[budman33]

Dating a Puerto Rican, it annoys her that people miscategorize her heritage but what can you do? We are surrounded by stupid people. My response to her is always, and why do you care what that person thinks?

The reality that people judge people is ... just reality.

[ck1942]

imo, the really savvy ladies are mainly interested in clients who are respectful and who meet their posted guidelines especially when it comes to screening and vouching.

Yes, there those providers who may seem rigid on age, race and other physical requirements.

But I have found that many gents who outwardly appear outside certain parameters become more definitely acceptable for the most part in "boudoir" terms following a meet and greet face to face.

ijs

[moonshiner]

Yay!!! Another I'm black and no one will see me thread.
Crying about it has not worked in the hundreds of preceeding threads.
Starting a thread about it never changes the perception, if anything it makes them dig their heels in deeper.

[Lena Duvall]

Woo, this is a lot to touch on. Especially on this site. Anyway, race and ethnicity or nationality are not all the same. Even though many people conflate the three. I was born in the Caribbean and I identify as Black plus my nationality. When people assume I'm African American without taking the time to ask, I chalk it up to that person's lack of knowledge (i. e. ignorance). I have no problem whatsoever with claiming my blackness or my African ancestry. And also, people with African ancestry exist elsewhere in the western hemisphere. (The Caribbean as you've mentioned, as well as Central and South America, and Canada.) And of course. let's not forget about people on the African continent and elsewhere on the other side of the globe.

[GingerLyn Harte]

Originally Posted by Lena Duvall

Woo, this is a lot to touch on. Especially on this site. Anyway, race and ethnicity or nationality are not all the same. Even though many people conflate the three. I was born in the Caribbean and I identify as Black plus my nationality. When people assume I'm African American without taking the time to ask, I chalk it up to that person's lack of knowledge (i. e. ignorance). I have no problem whatsoever with claiming my blackness or my African ancestry. And also, people with African ancestry exist elsewhere in the western hemisphere. (The Caribbean as you've mentioned, as well as Central and South America, and Canada.) And of course. let's not forget about people on the African continent and elsewhere on the other side of the globe.

Very well put ms. Duvall
Skin color vs. Nationality... I must say from my stand point..its the skin color/features. I'll leave it at that for now..hoping some asshole wont pry for my personal sob story.

[Toyz]

Originally Posted by Lena Duvall

Woo, this is a lot to touch on. Especially on this site. Anyway, race and ethnicity or nationality are not all the same. Even though many people conflate the three. I was born in the Caribbean and I identify as Black plus my nationality. When people assume I'm African American without taking the time to ask, I chalk it up to that person's lack of knowledge (i. e. ignorance). I have no problem whatsoever with claiming my blackness or my African ancestry. And also, people with African ancestry exist elsewhere in the western hemisphere. (The Caribbean as you've mentioned, as well as Central and South America, and Canada.) And of course. let's not forget about people on the African continent and elsewhere on the other side of the globe.

Lena,

First I'm not responding to be combative but to offer a similar situation to see if you agree.

I am caucasian...with white skin...(i tan in the summer and go pale in the winter...I have blue eyes...

Can you tell from that outward appearance if I am...

German
Welsh
Irish
Scandinavian
Czeckoslovakian
English...

Or...would you just say "hes white"?

Its not ignorance...you just dont know because outward apperances tend to be categorized as what we know...black, white, asian, indian, bandle...etc.

Lack of knowlege based on not knowing individual history?
Yes...
Ignorance?
Not in the context of your meaning.

[endurance]

Maybe not all NBA policies are created equally.

I'm not sure why I have any idea at all about this since I'm not black, but it seems from observation over the years that a provider that just briefly mentions a NBA policy probably will make exceptions if you have a mannerism more like Neil DeGrasse Tyson than a pimp/thug.

Providers/ads that go into it with details seem more likely to draw a hard line.

Edit: shoulda just wrote "what ck1942 said" - didn't see that the first time!

[Lena Duvall]

I think you are assuming what I mean when I say ignorance... Accusations about someone being ignorant can come with many nuanced meanings. When I said "ignorance" I was speaking to the most basic definition: a lack of knowledge, understanding, or education related to a certain topic.

And I don't think you are being combative. In fact, I think your example proves my point about the distinction between race and nationality. To answer your question, I would say you are white, as opposed to making an uneducated and possibly incorrect guess that you were German or Irish...

If someone looks at me and thinks or says that I am Black, they would be correct. And that is how I identify. But my point is, if I wouldn't look at you and guess your specific nationality, what is the purpose of someone else looking at me and saying I am African American. I have a distinct nationality that corresponds to me (as well as my most recent ancestors) being born in an island-country in the Caribbean. Not all Black people who are currently in America are African American. That is the point I was getting across.

Originally Posted by Toyz

Lena,

First I'm not responding to be combative but to offer a similar situation to see if you agree.

I am caucasian...with white skin...(i tan in the summer and go pale in the winter...I have blue eyes...

Can you tell from that outward appearance if I am...

German
Welsh
Irish
Scandinavian
Czeckoslovakian
English...

Or...would you just say "hes white"?

Its not ignorance...you just dont know because outward apperances tend to be categorized as what we know...black, white, asian, indian, bandle...etc.

Lack of knowlege based on not knowing individual history?
Yes...
Ignorance?
Not in the context of your meaning.

[Toyz]

Originally Posted by Lena Duvall

I think you are assuming what I mean when I say ignorance... Accusations about someone being ignorant can come with many nuanced meanings. When I said "ignorance" I was speaking to the most basic definition: a lack of knowledge, understanding, or education related to a certain topic.

And I don't think you are being combative. In fact, I think your example proves my point about the distinction between race and nationality. To answer your question, I would say you are white, as opposed to making an uneducated and possibly incorrect guess that you were German or Irish...

If someone looks at me and thinks or says that I am Black, they would be correct. And that is how I identify. But my point is, if I wouldn't look at you and guess your specific nationality, what is the purpose of someone else looking at me and saying I am African American. I have a distinct nationality that corresponds to me (as well as my most recent ancestors) being born in an island-country in the Caribbean. Not all Black people who are currently in America are African American. That is the point I was getting across.

I understood your point. And i think you understood mine. I also get the "true" definition of the word "ignorance", but in context 90% of readers will only see the negative connotation of the word.

Assumptions are made based on a persons experience. If you were in France...would most see you and assume French Black? How many would think islander based on the limited information they have...which is sight (what you look like)?

Interesting discussion...and I'm not looking to win an argument, just point out thinking points.

[rayg07]

Originally Posted by hardbod55

This question is mostly for the ladies although I know some guys will chime in. I am half Trinidadian/PuertoRican. People from other countries or are well-travelled usually notice the Caribbean heritage. However, other people, particularly American view me as
strictly AA initially. Is the perception more important than the reality in judging someone merely by the color of their skin? Also do other factors play into the image? Yes, now it's two questions..

Hardbod the reality is that you are black and in America. The slave trade went through Puerto Rico and Trinidad so you may not be able to pass as anything other than black. Black people in this country come in all shades of color but they are still considered black. Even if your moma is white your still considered black (Barack Obama). But the point I really want you to consider is that this hobby overwhelming consists of white males. Once you understand that they are the primary customer then you can navigate through this issue. The hobby is still a microcosm of the society we live in.

With that being said some of the women who advertise not seeing blacks actually do see black men. A few times (very few) I reached out to some ladies I was really interested in seeing who have NBA policies and they did agree to see me. I personally feel the policy is mostly good advertising given the provider's target audience (but there are many more reasons for the policy). Another thing you should consider is making sure you have p411. That opens a lot of doors for black men. Also I see you are in Austin. You probably have access to a lot of providers that have no issues with us (I see quite a few there I'm interested in) . You might be missing out on something good focusing on this issue. Just remember no one cares where you're from. In America if you look black you are black. But if you choose to go in your conversation needs to be on point.

[Ebony Jasmine Love Austin]

All good points. Especially Toyz surprisingly.

To the OP: you're BLACK dude!

[Ebony Jasmine Love Austin]

Why do you guys care or patronize women with a NBA policy?
Why do you guys not care to be perceived as not black?

Sad.

[rayg07]

Originally Posted by Ebony Jasmine Love Austin

Why do you guys care or patronize women with a NBA policy?
Why do you guys not care to be perceived as not black?

Sad.

Rarely do I patronize women with this policy but every now and then I see something I like and just give it a shot. But most of the time I see providers who want to see me. And I'm sure the OP is the same way. I totally agree with you on blacks not wanting to be perceived as black. You have lots of black providers on here claiming their mixed. But this too is them marketing to their target customer.

[MOCHAakaMOCHA]

Originally Posted by hardbod55

This question is mostly for the ladies although I know some guys will chime in. I am half Trinidadian/PuertoRican. People from other countries or are well-travelled usually notice the Caribbean heritage. However, other people, particularly American view me as
strictly AA initially. Is the perception more important than the reality in judging someone merely by the color of their skin? Also do other factors play into the image? Yes, now it's two questions..

I part afro-PR and part Haitian (most people spot/"suspect" Caribbean heritage but usually get the 'where' wrong).
I get questions about my heritage and if there is any admixture a lot usually due to shape of eyes and cheekbones.
I actually break it down on my site because I've gotten dubbed AA quite a bit...Race: Black , nationality: American , Heritage: Haitian/afro-PR.
In Puerto Rico i'm black...in Haiti i'm black....in the U.S. i'm black.
People can look like a lot of stuff and be something else....skin color or heritage or anything along those lines are non-factors in who I see.