For people who still believe the 2020 election was legit.

[bambino]

Blinken wrote the letter, 50 liars signed it.


Former deputy director of CIA Mike Morrell and all the others that signed this letter will go down in history as having been participants in the overthrow of the United States of America. Signing of this letter (w/ the support of the MSM) caused a massive shift in the electorate of our country just prior to the 2020 presidential election and was a total lie. All 51 put our democracy in danger & all was done for their own selfish self interests.

https://nypost.com/2023/04/20/biden-...laptop-letter/

[HDGristle]

Trump lost, Qpadre. It's over and it's ok to admit he lost a fair election.

We're in 2023 and it's time to focus on 2024.

[Smarty1]

I have never believed that the election was fraudulent. More votes were cast for Biden than Trump, and Biden won the electoral college vote based on these vote totals. However the censorship of the Hunter Biden laptop story and the lie that it was Russian disinformation almost certainly had an affect on those vote totals.

I have seen polls where around 15% of Biden voters claimed that they would not have voted for him had they known about the laptop when they voted. I don’t know how accurate those polls were and obviously nobody can know whether those Biden voters who claimed they would have changed their vote actually would have done so. It’s impossible to know whether the censorship of the laptop story changed the winner of the election or not, but it almost certainly would have had some impact on the voting. It is possible that Biden might have lost had that story been reported prior to the election.

[tommy156]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

Trump lost, Qpadre. It's over and it's ok to admit he lost a fair election.

We're in 2023 and it's time to focus on 2024.

Truly stunning that people are still in denial over this. Dear lord, talk about living in a fantasy world. The 2020 election is over. It's been over for a long time, and it wasn't even close.

[Smarty1]

Originally Posted by tommy156

Truly stunning that people are still in denial over this. Dear lord, talk about living in a fantasy world. The 2020 election is over. It's been over for a long time, and it wasn't even close.

Yes Trump lost, but maybe you’re too young to remember what an election that truly isn’t even close looks like. We haven’t had one for a while. Biden won the popular vote by 5.5% and the electoral vote by 306-232. Compare that to 1980 and 1984. In 1980 Reagan won by 9.8% in the popular vote and by a 489-49 count in the electoral vote. In 1984 he won by 18.2% in the popular vote and by 525-13 in the electoral vote. That is not even close.

The truth is that Biden won, but it was close enough that based on poll data it is possible that the censorship of the laptop story might have changed the result. Obviously we will never know this for sure, but if a few Russian trolls on Facebook spending a minuscule amount of money constituted “election interference” in 2016 and cast doubt on the legitimacy of Trump’s presidency, why would we not think that the censorship of the laptop and the lie that it was Russian disinformation is not similarly election interference, and that this might cast doubt on the legitimacy of Biden’s election? You can’t have it both ways.

[HDGristle]

Interference isn't an issue for me because it did or didn't work, it's always been about the actions in the attempt undermine the election. Period.

Hillary drove turnout in the right places for the wrong side and Trump won a legitimate election.

Trump got 4 years and he then drove turnout in the right places for the wrong side. He absolutely moved the needle. Which is why folks who say that all those votes weren't for Biden are right. A lot of them were just anti-Trump. And Biden won a legitimate election.

This round... we have 2 people who shouldn't be anywhere near this level of influence and power. So let's not let this be a rematch. We deserve better than Biden. And we deserve better than Trump. A choice between them is simple. You're choosing a clown who has no business being president.

[tommy156]

Only in America can you "win" an election by getting 3 million fewer votes than your opponent. The electoral college is the only reason we'll ever see another Republican POTUS. Haven't won a popular vote in 20 years. Won't be winning another one any time soon.

[tommy156]

Originally Posted by Smarty1

Yes Trump lost, but maybe you’re too young to remember what an election that truly isn’t even close looks like. We haven’t had one for a while. Biden won the popular vote by 5.5% and the electoral vote by 306-232. Compare that to 1980 and 1984. In 1980 Reagan won by 9.8% in the popular vote and by a 489-49 count in the electoral vote. In 1984 he won by 18.2% in the popular vote and by 525-13 in the electoral vote. That is not even close.

The truth is that Biden won, but it was close enough that based on poll data it is possible that the censorship of the laptop story might have changed the result. Obviously we will never know this for sure, but if a few Russian trolls on Facebook spending a minuscule amount of money constituted “election interference” in 2016 and cast doubt on the legitimacy of Trump’s presidency, why would we not think that the censorship of the laptop and the lie that it was Russian disinformation is not similarly election interference, and that this might cast doubt on the legitimacy of Biden’s election? You can’t have it both ways.

All fair points, but there is absolutely zero doubt in any rational person's mind that Biden won 2020. And if trump called his win in 2016 a "landslide" (lol, which it wasn't at all - in fact it was arguably the smallest margin of victory in U.S. history), then we can certainly call Biden's win a landslide too.

You may also remember that Hillary conceded the very next day in 2016. It's been 2½ years now, and trump is still blabbering about how he won. Lol. Dude's a fucking cancer and an enemy of democracy.

It should also be mentioned that Reagan wouldn't even recognize today's GOP. He's been rolling over in his grave consistently since the day McCain was forced to choose Palin as his running mate. That day marked the end of "the party of Reagan".

[Rege69]

Many, many, many fuckin' years of therapy.

[tommy156]

Indeed 🤣

[Smarty1]

Hilary conceded but we were treated to two years of investigations intended to undermine the legitimacy of Trump’s win. She also, despite the concession, routinely makes statements to the effect that the election was stolen and that she really won. (Taking her cue from the “real” governor of Georgia, Stacy Abrams, I assume). I’m not trying to defend Trump’s behavior, but let’s not pretend that he is the first person to question the legitimacy of an election. Even as far back as 2000 you had Dems doing so. Even though that election was very close, there was zero evidence that Gore actually got more votes in Florida than Bush did.

[Jacuzzme]

There were more ballots with Biden’s name checked, actual votes are a completely different issue. That’s how elections are done now, through paying collectors by the ballot. Until this changes, casting a vote, like has been done for over 200 years, is meaningless

[Smarty1]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

Interference isn't an issue for me because it did or didn't work, it's always been about the actions in the attempt undermine the election. Period.

Hillary drove turnout in the right places for the wrong side and Trump won a legitimate election.

Trump got 4 years and he then drove turnout in the right places for the wrong side. He absolutely moved the needle. Which is why folks who say that all those votes weren't for Biden are right. A lot of them were just anti-Trump. And Biden won a legitimate election.

This round... we have 2 people who shouldn't be anywhere near this level of influence and power. So let's not let this be a rematch. We deserve better than Biden. And we deserve better than Trump. A choice between them is simple. You're choosing a clown who has no business being president.

Amen to your last paragraph! But I’m afraid we are going to get that rematch. Hopefully the losing side accepts defeat and doesn’t attemp to undermine the legitimacy of the 2024 election, but given the track record in 2016 and 2020, I am pessimistic.

[chizzy]

Originally Posted by tommy156

Only in America can you "win" an election by getting 3 million fewer votes than your opponent. The electoral college is the only reason we'll ever see another Republican POTUS. Haven't won a popular vote in 20 years. Won't be winning another one any time soon.

This is a constitutional republic not a democracy as many people think it is and we have national elections based on the electoral college rather than popular vote for a very good reason. It is so the entire country has a say in how this country is run not just a few heavily populated states. Do you realize if we had the election based on popular vote all u would need is California new york Florida and Texas to determine it all for an example?

It was put into place by men who feared this and for good reason. But then again people who don't know history or understand the consequences don't give a rats ass I guess.

Carry on....

[tommy156]

The electoral college made sense, at one point, when we had fewer states and fewer people, when folks were using candlelight and horse-drawn carriages. Now, it's just a way to allow Republicans to "win" by getting fewer votes, thereby rendering the votes of people in Montana, for example, to be far more powerful than the votes of people from Florida or Texas. How can that possibly be fair? Acreage doesn't vote, people do.

You want to talk about a "rigged" system? Well, Exhibit A is the electoral college in the 21st century.