Donations when to pay?

[grtrader]

Just read another ad. "Donations must be provided up front with no discussion" Then goes on to say that the donations are for time.

Ok, I say if its for time I don't mind showing I have the money. But, payment is upon the completion of time.

These days I try to avoid women who count the number of times or bring up fees for multiples. You will never find me as repeat customer.

But in fair play I am also not all about limiting the time to just the one thing either. Especially the more I know the person and better friends I am with them. Yes, there is a big big difference to me between being a friend and just being a client.

[charlestudor2005]

Ladies--chime in. When is the appropriate time to pay. Remember, some guys are worried about the cash & dash scenario. While ladies are worried that they are not getting paid at all.

[Fast Gunn]

There is a natural tension in what men look for in a session versus what women look for (within the hobby limits).

The man simply wants sex and affection, but the woman has to simulate wanting sex, but really wanting only the money.

It's a business for her, but it's a real fantasy for you.

Personally, I much prefer paying after because that makes it sexier for me.

However, I know that she prefers being paid up front because then she can relax knowing you won't stiff her like some low lifes have done.

It's a natural tension built into the system that you just have to live with.

[grtrader]

Most men just want sex. I might say that is a bit strong but it could be accurate. But not the top so moving on.

The issue is that to many want to go and do this crap one pop two pops bs.
The first thing that is bad about that it turns whatever defence you could have used about it not being prostitution right out the window. Because now you just labelled it sex for money. Putting the added price on extras does the same thing.

Which is why I try to ask what will it take to cover whatever we do this evening or for the next hour or however long it is. This way it blanket clauses it to being about time. Making it all inclusive. Granted since you are not discussing details you have to give some room for interpretation.

If it is about business. Most business get paid after they do the work or deliver the product. Very few get paid before hand. Most businesses have a way of you getting a refund if you aren't satisfied.

I do sympathise with the women on the fact there are way to many scum-bags out there willing to rip them off.

Depending on how one words something is what can make it legal or not. I probably should start another thread on this alone. think i will.

[gimme_that]

I usually book multi hours, so I leave the money on the dresser. Every established and reviewed lady I saw took it after......but its definitely in plain view.

The times in which they were immediately pocketing the money first, their menu suddenly changed or they cashed n dash. But since seeing ladies with a rep for good service its never an issue.

In my experiences most take it after but its not an issue for me either way. I dont use envelopes and the money is spread out like a fan.

[grtrader]

There are a lot of awesome women who do get this. The intent is not preach to them but to put the point out there that guys should one not encourage the behavior of the others. Secondly, if they took a note from this book as the more established women had the sense to do it leads to a better experience and repeat customers.... Probably less risk of someone getting upset at them and something bad happening also.

[Guest031811]

It is very bizarre that you brought up this topic because I have had "enough" crap. I realize that not all men want to use me, but when it happens enough, it can really make a girl mean and hard.

This is a very sore, sensitive subject for me. When I first started providing, I used to think that it was rude and tasteless to bring up the subject of money if the man did not automatically pay up front. However, after one session, the man realized that he had "forgotten" to go to the ATM. (and I never saw him or his funds)

So, my policy changed to where the money needed to be in "the envelope" before the session so I could see that the money was there. Again, my feelings on tastelessness and tackiness inhibited me from counting it in front of the client. HOWEVER, with this current policy, clients have shorted me 20-120 dollars (it happens every couple of weeks). I don't know if it is because they don't agree with my fee or have pre-decided that I am "just not worth it". In any case, I have decided to swallow my pride and start counting the money "pre-session".

Pre-counting also alleviates another "problem", overstaying your welcome. On occasion, men will book a half hour appointment, but STAY for the hour. Staying a few minutes after and chit-chatting is fun. But I can give you several occasions where the men will chit-chat for up to twenty minutes after the session and then try for "round two". On one occasion, I allowed for "round two" outside of the allotted time. I was not compensated for this extra time.


I cannot speak for other ladies, but I do speak for myself when I say that I can only get burned so many times. I'd like to be polite and assume that I am going to be treated well. However, right now, my "bad list" is longer than my "good".

I can say this though, when a man makes "the good list", the next time he comes back, he is treated like a god.

Sometimes we ladies have to do things that may appear tasteless, but it is because we are protecting ourselves. In the end, if you treat us right, you'll come up on top.

[grtrader]

Originally Posted by brittanylennox

It is very bizarre that you brought up this topic because I have had "enough" crap. I realize that not all men want to use me, but when it happens enough, it can really make a girl mean and hard.

This is a very sore, sensitive subject for me. When I first started providing, I used to think that it was rude and tasteless to bring up the subject of money if the man did not automatically pay up front. However, after one session, the man realized that he had "forgotten" to go to the ATM. (and I never saw him or his funds)

So, my policy changed to where the money needed to be in "the envelope" before the session so I could see that the money was there. Again, my feelings on tastelessness and tackiness inhibited me from counting it in front of the client. HOWEVER, with this current policy, clients have shorted me 20-120 dollars (it happens every couple of weeks). I don't know if it is because they don't agree with my fee or have pre-decided that I am "just not worth it". In any case, I have decided to swallow my pride and start counting the money "pre-session".

Pre-counting also alleviates another "problem", overstaying your welcome. On occasion, men will book a half hour appointment, but STAY for the hour. Staying a few minutes after and chit-chatting is fun. But I can give you several occasions where the men will chit-chat for up to twenty minutes after the session and then try for "round two". On one occasion, I allowed for "round two" outside of the allotted time. I was not compensated for this extra time.


I cannot speak for other ladies, but I do speak for myself when I say that I can only get burned so many times. I'd like to be polite and assume that I am going to be treated well. However, right now, my "bad list" is longer than my "good".

I can say this though, when a man makes "the good list", the next time he comes back, he is treated like a god.

Sometimes we ladies have to do things that may appear tasteless, but it is because we are protecting ourselves. In the end, if you treat us right, you'll come up on top.

I tend to like reading your replies. They are based around some sense and personal experience. I for one am not going to be offended if you count the money.

There are a lot lot of guys who will just try to see how much they can get away with. Be aware of it. Not all will do that to you as you know.

I think most guys with any reason can see that you would like to make sure the money is there as well. Anyone with half a brain cell will understand you wanting to see it with the way things happen.

However, I would not say you should take the money at the beginning.
There are countless cash and dash tricks women try so I understand the guys side also. The idea here is to come up with some sort of arrangement both can be happy with.

The next issue is what to do when a woman cuts off half way either after you finished or not or tries to cut out early talking more than 5 minutes.
I say keep to the idea it is a business transaction and sex is not what is for sale. Unless there is a previously agreed upon time for money agreement in effect to spell out the price the price should be based on percentile of time she spends with you. So if your agreed upon price was 200 an hr the woman wants to leave at 30 minutes then she would get half unless you agreed upon if she leaves after 30 minutes she gets another price. If no discussion of her leaving at 30 minutes occurred before hand and then you are back to the percentile.

It works that way when someone contracts me for my time. After all the idea is to make this as legit or legal as possible on top of it.

Got to wonder if one actually filled out work contract or consultation contracts if that may carry weight in a court. Probably should be in the legal forum area.

My usual disclaimer:
I am not an attorney nor your representative and suggest you consult an attorney on any actual legal questions. Anything I discuss is based on my observations and not to be taken as legal fact or direction of any kind.

[Guest032514-1]

Up front. Always. I will sit and have a wonderful conversation as long as you want. That's it.

Actually, for maybe 10 minutes max. Then I'll say "Why don't we take care of the formalities." I am beyond uncomfortable by then. If you're still sitting on your dollars, I figure there must be a reason. And none of the reasons are good. At this point, the date is over, you are asked to leave and I will not be seeing you.

Walk in. Lay it down. Move along to whatever. It's simple. S. I. M. P. L. E. If this is the first time you have met this lady, expect it to be counted.

[PSD]

+1

When a friend taught me the etiquette in this hobby, I learned this...

A kiss at the door and an envelope on the dresser...

..and a ton of homework upfront to prevent any misconceptions...

He was right, works for me every time...

[PSD]

...and GR, you're dangerous IMO...the ladies cringe at your tactics....

[Likinikki]

I'm different, I guess. I've never asked for the envelope...i just think the hobbyist should already know how it goes. And, yes, I've been shorted before...but, the way I look at it...that's saving me time and money in the long run...because I won't be seeing him ever again...and he will be listed on alerts. And, imho...it is rude to count the money upfront...it makes me feel uneasy doing it...and it certainly must make the gentleman feel awkward as well.

If we (providers) do our screening properly...there shouldn't be many times that we get cheated...unless a provider doesn't offer a truthful reference.

[grtrader]

Originally Posted by El Goobre'

...and GR, you're dangerous IMO...the ladies cringe at your tactics....

Got to wander do you mean dangerous because they may not get paid by some guys? Or is it supposed to be some form direct inference?

I understand that your sentiments. The primary point of the thread was on coming to a common point were both sides feel safe.
Guys worry about grab and dash and women rightfully worry about actually getting paid.

As for the remark on short times. The point was more of an exercise of what this would be more like it it was a legit business and these were real accountable transactions. Any reputable company or indivdual who does contract work has these issue to deal with.

If this industry ever wants to get more accepted and not face legal issues like prosecution for prostitution it will need to do a number of things prove one it is willing to regulate or follow regulation. Be that regulation self imposed or government imposed. It will need in that effect to weed out garbage in the industry and operate on the same basic rules of business most businesses operate on.

Technically today most women are operating a unlicensed DBA type of business. In theory since the law isn't busting them for escorting. That is legal any contract with and individual can be enforced in a court of law.

While most clients know what they are doing to a small extent are fairly hard to put an ID to most escorts aren't. So the second option goes to enforcing a contract between to parties in court room if the woman shorts the time.

I guess for the most part the real issue is do women really want this business made legit and the law to stop bothering them or are they ok with the way it is. Would you prefer LE that works with your community to protect you or want them to keep trying to bust you?

Here is a possible future scenario. since there is a current legal loop hole that allows for escorting someone will choose to fill that hole. My guess it will be either licensing or you will be required to keep receipts or something like that at one point. Maybe they will do both. If you pay the licensing they make money. small potatoes compared to what you can earn right. Receipts would be worse because all those guys who want to keep their IDentity quite well would now be leaving a trail. Of course you could lie on the receipts they just go ahead and another rule you are responsible for ensuring the info is correct to the best of your ability. That done they come along and look at how many receipts of yours are wrong. hmmm... see were it can go

So then the next question is who do you want filling the loop hole them or you?

The way I look at it the escort industry is sitting on the top of a hill right now you got a choice work to keep it their or end up rolling down one side or another in time. It can prove it can self regulate and operate on a professional reputable business level or can become a victim to the next set of politicians who want to close the hole on prostitution.

[hotsausagemeat]

I don't know what the problem is. I agree with el goobre... have the donation in an envelope and casually place it in a conspicuous place. If she missed where you placed it, let her know it's on the night stand, counter, etc. If she wants to count it, then excuse yourself to the bathroom, etc. and let her do her thing. There is a possibility of a cash n' dash, especially if it's an outcall, but that is a risk we have to assume. Just like getting busted. Regardless of how innocent it looks, the fuzz could still bust in and at a minimum, detain both of you. Again, another risk we all assume.

As for paying after, there are many services we pay for in life that are pay first. Take going to Disneyland for instance (no pun intended). I know I'm gonna pay my fee upfront to get into the Magic Kingdom and I'm supposed to get to ride all day. However, I know I'm not going to be able to get on every ride on one visit. Should I piss and moan if I didn't get to go on the teacups? No, that's life. Just move on and try again next time.

Maybe, if you get a LTR with a provider you might get a little extra as she gets to know you and maybe even likes you a little. However, if you treat her like a vending machine then that's all the service you're going to get. I'm sorry, did I just make another analogy where you pay first and get your treat afterward?

Also, she's not going to give you a proportional rate. Again, the unfairness of life. If life were proportional there wouldn't have been so many poorly secured mortgages and the economy would be stable. That's to save for another discussion.

In conclusion, follow the provider's rules and pay her upfront to put her at ease. Remember, it's a different experience for her than it is for you. You're asking a woman to allow yourself to enter her body. That takes a certain kind of intimacy, no matter how sterile you think the proceedings are. Put her mind at ease and things will go a lot smoother. Above all else, have fun!

[Greyhound]

The first time I see a lady, she doesn't know me from Joe Schmoe. I personally feel that if I make her comfortable at the onset, then the rest of the time will be much more enjoyable. I would rather her know that I've properly taken care of her, so that she will properly take care of me. And in doing so, when I see providers more than once, they will already know that I'm going to treat them right, and not try to short them or get something that wasn't agreed upon. I will never be offended if they choose to count in front of me. I do it in front of my clients all the time in my day job. It's the nature of business.

I agree with El G... tons of homework up front is the way to go. I read reviews, read some of their posts, and try to get a general feel for them. This (IMO) reduces the possibility for cash'n'dash. Those providers who do that get a reputation quickly, and won't last long, so they tend to be weeded out fairly quickly from among the reputable ones.

There are arguments for both sides. Who takes the greater risk at getting shorted either time or money? Well, there's inherent risk in this hobby taken by all parties. It's a risky business. Ladies take a risk that they will be shorted money, or possibly run into that nut-job. Guys worry about getting taken for a ride (and not the one they want), and everyone is worried about LE.

Someone needs to make the choice to take the first step. I am fine with it being me. I'll gladly hand over our agreed-upon donation at the start in order to clear the air, but that's just me. If I wind up not getting what I hoped for.... oh well. You live, you learn.

All that is about my $0.02 worth. Take it for what you will.