Japanese Minister in hot water for stating the truth...

[Guest032516]

Demographics are destiny:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...p-die-japanese

Japan can't afford its elderly population. A minister suggests they should refuse end-of-life treatment and speed up death.

Hard to argue with the numbers.

This statistic is staggering:
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"Aso's comments are likely to cause offence in Japan, where almost a quarter of the 128 million population is aged over 60. The proportion is forecast to rise to 40% over the next 50 years.
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40% of the population OVER 60? Holy welfare state, Batman.

[timpage]

It's where the US is headed.

Shit, you wont have to convince me. I've seen several elderly acquaintances and relatives die agonizingly slow deaths over the past several years. Cancer, Alzheimers.

You can submit my case to the Death Panel. Just keep feeding the morphine into me, that's all I ask.

[i'va biggen]

Must have met Sara and bought into the death panels.

[Laz]

Death panels is a provocative term but the reality is that the only way to control medical costs in Obamacare will be to control what is spent. That means someone deciding who gets what treatment. The end result of that is determining who dies and who gets what treatment.

[Texas Contrarian]

I see this as just one of many efforts toward preparing Japan's elderly and near-elderly for eventual acceptance of the notion that resources just aren't going to be there to cover end-of-life care and other expensive health care benefits.

While Japan's economy has been mired in a slow-growth rut for many years, its gross national debt has swollen to about 240% of GDP. Most of that has been financed internally, since the nation's saving rate has historically been so high. But now a growing elderly population will be forced to begin dissaving on a very large scale. It's still true that corporate and institutional saving rates in Japan are high, but unclear whether that can continue to be even remotely capable of making up the difference.

Japanese 10-year JGBs yield only about 0.75%, even though the central government in cooperation with the Bank of Japan (Japan's version of the Fed) recently announced that they would target an inflation rate of 2%, ostensibly to weaken the yen and gain comparative trade advantages for Japan. But bond yields at or below 1% imply expectations that inflation will be near zero or even negative. Japan is clearly playing a very dangerous game.

I think it's important to note that the 2% inflation target and yen-weakening efforts by the BOJ arose, at least in part, as a result of recent sharp declines in Japanese exports.

The country is caught in a trap from which escape is very difficult. Although Japan will long be a wealthy nation, in many ways it is fucked.

[Whirlaway]

Get the state out of medical care funding; return the responsibility to individual and families...

Individuals and families would not spend needlessly on end of life medical care if they had to pay for it.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Get the state out of medical care funding; return the responsibility to individual and families...

Individuals and families would not spend needlessly on end of life medical care if they had to pay for it.

As usual, you are full of shit. Wouldn't pay to keep their loved ones alive? You probably wouldn't but, thank god, you're not representative of the general population that has feelings and emotions, and is not totally self-absorbed.

It wouldn't be a choice anyway. The vast majority of Americans wouldn't be able to afford end of life medical care for their loved ones.

[Whirlaway]

You do not understand how costly end of life care is; if it wasn't for Medicare and Medicaid, many families who have resources just wouldn't deplete them to save Grandma for another 60 days !

It is a fact, sad but true fact.

You obviously have never been thru this process......

[timpage]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

You do not understand how costly end of life care is; if it wasn't for Medicare and Medicaid, many families who have resources just wouldn't deplete them to save Grandma for another 60 days !

It is a fact, sad but true fact.

You obviously have never been thru this process......

I've quite recently have been through the "process". I understand as well, or better, exactly what the costs are, better than you would be my bet.

Let me just give you one example of why your idea is stupid and cruel. What about a scenario where the dying person is in significant physical pain but death isn't imminent? Incredibly common, happens more often than not. Without Medicare, who pays for the palliative care necessary to ease the suffering of that person? That care can be very expensive, well beyond the means of the average American. Have you ever seen someone slowly dying of, for instance, a respiratory disease? Unable to draw a breath? And that can go on for months without the person dying.

So, the family chooses between watching their elderly parent suffer terribly as they slowly die.... or spending their life savings on palliative care. That is a great set of choices Whirly. Good idea.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by timpage

As usual, you are full of shit. Wouldn't pay to keep their loved ones alive? You probably wouldn't but, thank god, you're not representative of the general population that has feelings and emotions, and is not totally self-absorbed.

Medical authorizations are common place within families ....

.....and the only people I have personally observed who were insensitive to the suffering on going were the ones who didn't have an authorization to make any decisions, but were trying to push the doctors to pull the plug so they "loved one" would hurry up and die so they could CASH IN ... those same ones are usually trying to find any WILL to hide it, get another WILL drawn up, or trying to use some worthless power of attorney to grab whatever they can ...

.... you read too many funny books, if that is your view of reality.

A "death panel" is a misnomer and also an inciteful title, but the decision to withhold medical services and refuse to cover the costs because of the advanced age of the patient or the advanced stage of any illness ... amounts to the same thing, and is often not even made by more than one person. Private insurance companies do it, just as much as medicaid or medicare representtives. Physician and hospitals end up eating the costs and giving away their labor, when their claims are denied.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by timpage

So, the family chooses between watching their elderly parent suffer terribly as they slowly die.... or spending their life savings on palliative care. That is a great set of choices Whirly. Good idea.

The ignorant "family" has the choice ... the intelligent family pre-plans with a medical authorization in which the person expresses their instructions on end of care decisions. Many hospitals request them, they just don't know how to fill them out properly and often fail to completely fill them out in front of independent witnesses.

You are full of shit. Quit your whining, liberal, bullshit.

Sign a medical authorization, save the family the money.

[Whirlaway]

People shouldn't suffer; if a family member refuses to pay for pain management, then the system can step in....it is a bogus argument. Pain medication isn't what is bankrupting us.

But the current system is costly because the individual is NOT financially responsible for payment....we have been shifting these costs to others...that isn't right either.

Rather than having government "death panels" I prefer a system in which the individual and family are charged with making (and paying for) these kinds of medical decisions.

The current system is "hey give 90 yo grandma the hip replacement, even if she is wheelchair bound", I am not paying for it. That electric go cart is free ? hell yeah I'll take it ! You mean someone will come over and chat with me and Medicaid will pay for it under "in home care" ??? Fuck yeah, sign me up, I ain't paying......and on and on and on.....................

[timpage]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

The ignorant "family" has the choice ... the intelligent family pre-plans with a medical authorization in which the person expresses their instructions on end of care decisions. Many hospitals request them, they just don't know how to fill them out properly and often fail to completely fill them out in front of independent witnesses.

You are full of shit. Quit your whining, liberal, bullshit.

Sign a medical authorization, save the family the money.

Thanks, but the medical authorization issue doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. By the way, you're mixed up, as usual, and talking out of your ass about something you don't appear to understand. You should be talking about the need for a living will or a medical power of attorney in regard to these types of decisions, not a medical authorization. Nice try though. Sounds like you're one of those dumbasses you refer to in your post who hasn't done much planning for these types of events since you aren't even familiar with the nomenclature. I guess that puts you in the "ignorant family" group?

Regardless of who is making end of life decisions, decisions have to be made. You're not addressing the questions I'm asking. So, either shut the fuck up....or read the thread more carefully and try to respond in a way that doesn't make you look like a half-wit.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

People shouldn't suffer; if a family member refuses to pay for pain management, then the system can step in....it is a bogus argument. Pain medication isn't what is bankrupting us.

But the current system is costly because the individual is NOT financially responsible for payment....we have been shifting these costs to others...that isn't right either.

Rather than having government "death panels" I prefer a system in which the individual and family are charged with making (and paying for) these kinds of medical decisions.

The current system is "hey give 90 yo grandma the hip replacement, even if she is wheelchair bound", I am not paying for it. That electric go cart is free ? hell yeah I'll take it ! You mean someone will come over and chat with me and Medicaid will pay for it under "in home care" ??? Fuck yeah, sign me up, I ain't paying......and on and on and on.....................

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say here. But, your original premise was that Medicare should be eliminated. Now, you've shifted to "the system can step in" in the scenario I describe and I'm wondering what "system" that would be if it wasn't Medicaid or Medicare.

[Laz]

It seems like there is agreement on a few points:

We do not want to watch the elderly die in agony

We do want to control the cost of end of life care. Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done. ( What the so called "death panels" would address )

Those decisions should be made by the family not the government

The cost of those decisions should be handled by the family not the government (this is not an absolute because there are always exceptions but should be true for the most part)