banking question

[Guest072918]

With employment changes, I have been able to step up my hobbying, both in frequency and duration. Even included a recent $3500 5 day hobby binge with 3 ladies, 2 of which were overnights.

The last couple of times I have gotten large sums of cash from my bank, the tellers spent much more time on their computer than before. The last time, the teller had to get a folder out to refer to a couple of sheets and enter something in his computer. Evidently, I have triggered the aggregate $5000 limit on the requirement for the bank to determine if my cash withdrawals warrant a Suspicious Activity Report. I am sure that is how Congressman Hastert was identified.

So, a couple of questions for gents that may know the banking side of things:

If my bank account has triggered the aggregate SAR limit, how long does that last? Will it carry over for months? And will the bank now match ATM withdrawals as well?

I do have a separate account that is out of state. Will the SAR extend to other accounts I have?

Are there safe ways to generate hundreds to thousands of dollars in cash without triggering a SAR?

Any help or advice from ladies or gents would be welcome.

[Ed Highlight]

First of all, the SAR is usually triggered by activity of $10,000 - Secondly, you are more likely to trigger an SAR with a deposit than you will with a withdrawal of several smaller amounts, especially around the holiday...

Lastly, an SAR is only an SAR if your activity is suspicious (money laundering, structuring, drug activity, etc.) - If you are earning money legitimately and spending it, the activity is not suspicious at all.....RELAX!!

[redfish15]

You can actually cause a SAR to be generated "just by asking how to avoid one". That's considered suspicious. $5000 deposits/withdrawals usually won't trigger anything on their on. But if you show a pattern of deposits/withdrawals just under the 10k limit--say 8000-9000--then it will. It's called structuring.
And as far as do they link accounts--certainly not if it's different banks. Maybe if your accounts are all at one bank and have same tax ID number then quite possibly.

[ck1942]

Since it appears that your primary bank account is NOT a joint account, then you should be able to open a couple of other "savings" accounts elsewhere, such as at a credit union or two, without raising any suspicions at home.

Yes, the guvmint will know due to SSAN data that you have multiple accounts. But that is of little consequence as long as the accounts appear to be ordinary.

You may very easily transfer money (not cash, per se) from your primary account to the secondaries on line. And thus, with a bit more effort, you may make cash withdraws from the separate account with less visibility.

Additionally, you could easily at most if not all of the banking institutions obtain "gift cards" that you could use to cover donations.

Cover other expenses with a debit card from any or all of the accounts.

Sounds like you plan to have a lot more fun in the future. Be wise in your choices!

[Stag]

Redfish is right, that you can generate a Suspicious Activity Report in a lot of ways. Any $10,000 cash deposit or withdrawal makes the SAR automatic, but a pattern of smaller transactions (sometimes even as small as $2-3k, if they are persistent or peculiar in some way) can raise a red flag. For smaller than $10k transactions, it requires gaining the notice of a nosy bank employee. It's possible that your transactions just piqued the interest of someone at your bank.

The good news is that even if an SAR has been generated (which, frankly, seems like a fairly low likelihood under the facts you've outlined), it likely lands on the desk of someone who will give it a cursory look, check to see of your tax returns are consistent with that kind of money being in your account, look for any other evidence that you're a criminal or security risk, then assume you're just a lucky poon hound. (Of course, make sure you don't cheat on your taxes -- unexplained income makes you look like you might be involved in something suspicious, which will bump any SAR's involving you into a higher priority category.)

[JRLawrence]

Originally Posted by Ed Highlight

First of all, the SAR is usually triggered by activity of $10,000 - Secondly, you are more likely to trigger an SAR with a deposit than you will with a withdrawal of several smaller amounts, especially around the holiday...

Lastly, an SAR is only an SAR if your activity is suspicious (money laundering, structuring, drug activity, etc.) - If you are earning money legitimately and spending it, the activity is not suspicious at all.....RELAX!!

You used to be right. But the world continues to change. Today, cash deposits and withdrawals of a much lower amount will be tracked at around $2500 if is is an individual account. Cash deposits from a business that is identified as dealing in cash are different. Businesses that hardly ever use cash still want to put cash deposits for every bit of cash they receive because that tells the Feds that they are indeed depositing what cash they receive and it has not be diverted to a small business owner.

The use of data base searches will identify cash withdrawals from anyone in the bank, or unusual deposits. However, the in or out flow of money would be identified to the individual banks that keep the accounts. It is not unusual for any federal agency to request the records of your bank account. I know it has been done to me without a warrant, just because they want to know. My banker, at the time, told me about it after it was all said and done. Searches for background information come up all the time if you happen to come up as a possible item for something. If it checks out, you have no problem; as in this is OK we know what he is doing. If you have nothing to hide, don't worry about. Spending $5000 for a personal party time is not a bid deal. But they will check you out.

Data search methods and statistical methods of analysis is a fun area. You will be surprised what one can find, just by asking the questions.

JR

[Chung Tran]

good answers here, nothing to add, just to say that my bank has become more and more suspicious of every little thing, and I get more and more snippy with them because of that.. it's all very irritating.

[ck1942]

^^^ Plus 1.

Which is only one reason why my personal banking is within one main bank and several c.u.'s. And my main business accounts at a very large bank with international branches.

It does pay to have periodic meetings (both face to face and by phone) with one's personal/business bankers from time to time.

[Guest072918]

Just for clarification, the $10K limit is for the Currency Transaction Report, which is automatic at all financial institutions. The limit for SAR is $5K. And both can be in aggregate. So my withdrawals over a few weeks time for the 3.5K hobbython, plus other $1K withdrawls in the same month probably got me on the watch list.

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

[ShysterJon]

This is all much ado about nothing to me. I've never heard of LE -- city, county, state, or federal -- using bank records to make a plain-vanilla prostitution case.

[Unique_Carpenter]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

This is all much ado about nothing to me. I've never heard of LE -- city, county, state, or federal -- using bank records to make a plain-vanilla prostitution case.

Agree.

The intent of SARs, is for the FinCEN system to attempt to ID terrorists or money launderers and dates back to the 2001 Patriot Act. But, it can be, and is, used for any financial crime that uses the banking system. So we're not talking misdemeanors.

I note that some of the comments posted above are not actually correct.

Woodford has a correct comment about the 10K report being a separate Treasury report. And, that requirement does include "aggregating" transactions (don't bother splitting it up cause that doesn't work)

For SARs, a financial institution can generate a SAR on any transaction regardless of amount. The only thing the 5K is for, is that the transaction has to be documented as to why it did not issue a SAR, if one is not issued. It does not mean that one is required to be issued. And btw, a SAR also is to include "aggregation" of amounts.
SAR documentation (the paper) is to be retained for 5 yrs. But, once it's in a computer system.... I do note that any authorized treasury agent has access.

Note that it doesn't matter if you go to a teller window, use an atm, or use online banking. Most of the transaction reporting is automated in the banks computer system. So yes, unless you have an account at a totally different bank, all your transactions are aggregated. Btw, some banks rent other banks systems, so....
But yes, tellers are supposed to know their customers. Thus, the corner strip club, that's been open forever, that deposits daily, and sometimes goes over the 10K will have the treasury report for the 10K+, but may never have a SAR cause its a known (and clean) business operation.

Last, this was a fun ramble, but note (and back to Jon's comment) misdemeanor's are not going to draw the attention of feds. But a banker might ask an odd question, to cover his azz, cause the banks are supposed to "know" their clients

[ShysterJon]

I'm gonna print this thread and keep it on my nightstand for if I ever have insomnia.

[Unique_Carpenter]

^^^ Heh

[Ed Highlight]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

I'm gonna print this thread and keep it on my nightstand for if I ever have insomnia.

What's the matter counselor, legal briefs aren't doing it for ya' anymore??

[ShysterJon]

Originally Posted by Ed Highlight

What's the matter counselor, legal briefs aren't doing it for ya' anymore??

I wear briefs in bed, I don't read them.