Welcome to ECCIE - Sign up today!

CuteOldGuy · 07-09-2012, 10:49 PM

I still have a lot of questions about Obamacare, but this is serious. If the numbers are close, and I have no doubt they are, Obamacare will be a disaster. My kid is a doctor, and reports the same percentage from colleagues.

Now we are having a serious and thoughtful discussion about some questions in another thread, so I hope this can remain the same.

What I get from this article is that the government can't effectively take over a major portion of the health care system and expect it to remain the same. We seem to think that if we force all this paperwork on health care providers, increasing their costs while at the same time decreasing what they get paid, health care will remain the same. We think that now poor people will get the same high quality health care that the perceived more well off get. We think that we can make health insurance more affordable by mandating what and who insurance companies cover, regardless of what the individuals need, and regardless of whether the coverage and premium payment are actuarily sound.

That's not what's going to happen. Health care quality will decrease for everyone. (Except, of course, the 0.1% that actually run the country. They will get what they want regardless.) As the number of doctors decreases, so does the access to health care. As insurance costs rise to cover the risk of pre-existing conditions, access to health care decreases. As more people become less able to afford "qualified" health insurance, and opt to pay the penalty, access to heath care decreases.

Socialism promotes equality by bringing everyone down. You may have access to the same health care as your more well-to-do neighbor, but it will be lower quality and more expensive for both of you.

So why is Obamacare a good thing?

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/09/re...ver-obamacare/

cptjohnstone · 07-09-2012, 10:53 PM

isn't that the problem in Canada? aside waiting months for surgery

joe bloe · 07-09-2012, 10:58 PM

Obama is a Marxist with a grudge against America. His only motivation is to aquire power by any means necessary, that includes destroying the country. Then again, maybe he's just incredibly stupid. I think it's the former.

chefnerd · 07-09-2012, 10:59 PM

Why do I think this is not an unbiased survey? Because the founder has been fighting health care reform for 20 years or because of the TEA Party affiliation?

CJ7 · 07-09-2012, 10:59 PM

gee COF, Ive already told you once today but since youre a slow learner Ill tell you again

youre so full of shit

CuteOldGuy · 07-09-2012, 11:06 PM

We're trying to have a reasonable discussion. It's possible. If you have evidence that disproves the article or my reasoning, please provide it. Or if you have something to offer in support, post away. I really am interested in how this thing is going to work.

IIFFOFRDB · 07-09-2012, 11:10 PM

If Oboytoy has no Obamacare. She's got nothing...ijs

nwarounder · 07-09-2012, 11:12 PM

You are not going to get a socialist to respond, none of them have a clue how it works. Obama said it is good for them, and they drank it.

CJ7 · 07-09-2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

We're trying to have a reasonable discussion. It's possible. If you have evidence that disproves the article or my reasoning, please provide it. Or if you have something to offer in support, post away. I really am interested in how this thing is going to work.

if you call 83 % of Drs giving up country club lifestyles, luxury cars, trophy women, and everything they worked their asses off for years to become a reasonable conversation youre full of shit.

Joey calling the president a marxist and not offering much else is reasonable ...... for him.

joe bloe · 07-09-2012, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjohnstone

isn't that the problem in Canada? aside waiting months for surgery

After a few years of Obamacare, we will envy Canada's healthcare system. Our population is nine times the population of Canada and we are much more diverse. We have a 2,000 mile border with a third world country. The quality of our healthcare, under the new system, is going to be horrific.

CuteOldGuy · 07-09-2012, 11:39 PM

And providing a nonsensical, pointless answer is reasonable for you, CBJ7.

Next?

CJ7 · 07-09-2012, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

And providing a nonsensical, pointless answer is reasonable for you, CBJ7.

Next?

83% of Drs cutting off their dicks is nonsensical and your lil survey is TOTALLY pointless.

btw ... you, iiffofrdb, and joey have a "meaningful" conversation ...

IIFFOFRDB · 07-09-2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ7

83% of Drs cutting off their dicks is nonsensical and your lil survey is TOTALLY pointless.

btw ... you, iiffofrdb, and joey have a "meaningful" conversation ...

I heard your smartass call on C-SPAN punk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDBajmgtS3w

gnadfly · 07-09-2012, 11:57 PM

A guy I work with wife is a somewhat newly minted doctor. He shows up all the time with iPads and other electronic goodies that he just finds on his doorstep. Seriously. He says drug reps and other folks just send them to her. He's planning on working another 5 years or so and then just be her IT office manager. The stories he tells...

The doctors, especially the new ones and the money hungry ones, just aren't going to cooperate with the deal the AMA put together with the Obama administration. They are either going to go to a cash only basis or just not take any new patients. As one doctors put it "If they think I'm going to wake up Sunday morning to put a stent in a guy for $400, they are fucking crazy."

joe bloe · 07-10-2012, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnadfly

A guy I work with wife is a somewhat newly minted doctor. He shows up all the time with iPads and other electronic goodies that he just finds on his doorstep. Seriously. He says drug reps and other folks just send them to her. He's planning on working another 5 years or so and then just be her IT office manager. The stories he tells...

The doctors, especially the new ones and the money hungry ones, just aren't going to cooperate with the deal the AMA put together with the Obama administration. They are either going to go to a cash only basis or just not take any new patients. As one doctors put it "If they think I'm going to wake up Sunday morning to put a stent in a guy for $400, they are fucking crazy."

The Dimo's ARE fucking crazy, that's the problem. They think they can pay doctors like carpenters and everything is going to work just fine. For generations, medical doctors were highly paid, and the job was probably the most prestigous in the country. The medical profession attracted the very best people. It's not going to anymore. The number of surgeons that will be competent to perform open heart surgery, will drop to a handful in a few years. The quality of our healthcare is going to turn to shit.