Should We Follow the UK's Example on Crime?

[CuteOldGuy]

Let's see, how are things going in the UK? I know some of our friends from across the pond would like us to use them as an example. So here we go!

UK is violent crime capital of Europe

The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to new research.

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.

Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a "damning indictment" of the Government's failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.

The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

It also recorded the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU, and the highest absolute number of burglaries, with double the number of offences recorded in Germany and France.

Overall, 5.4 million crimes were recorded in the UK in 2007 - more than 10 a minute - second only to Sweden.

Chris Grayling, shadow home secretary, said: "This is a real damning indictment of this government's comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock-on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.

"We're now on our fourth Home Secretary in this parliament, and all we are getting is a rehash of old initiatives that didn't work the first time round. More than ever Britain needs a change of direction."

The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission's database of statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior or justice, and police.

A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.
It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.

The Home Office says there has been a downtrend in overall violence for the past decade.

But last October it emerged that levels of violent crime in England and Wales had been underestimated for more than a decade because of a blunder in recording methods.

Ministers admitted that some police forces had not been recording offences of grievous bodily harm with intent as serious violent crime. When the offences were included violent crime figures immediately increased by a fifth.

Separate figures disclosed in May showed that the number of people requiring hospital treatment after being seriously hurt in street fights or assaults has risen 50 per cent in five years.

More than 20 people a day were taken to hospital accident and emergency departments in England last year after being hit, kicked, scratched or bitten. Alcohol is blamed as a factor in half of the incidents and raises further questions over 24-hour drinking.

Researchers admit that comparisons of crime data between countries must be viewed with caution because of differing criminal justice systems and how crimes are reported and measured.

A Home Office spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading. Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.

“Violent crime in England and Wales has fallen by almost a half since a peak in 1995 but we are not complacent and know there is still work to do. “

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...of-Europe.html

[JD Barleycorn]

Need to add that about ten years ago they started arming the London police.

[essence]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Let's see, how are things going in the UK? I know some of our friends from across the pond would like us to use them as an example. So here we go!

In case anybody thinks CoG is referring to me (and I don;t know how many others here are from the UK), I have, as far as I know, never suggested UK example was followed by the US.

Another case of CoG putting words into my mouth.

Maybe I had better change my sig line back again.

I have, of course, explained how English thinkers influenced the constitution way back.

It would be completely impractical to suggest the US follows the UK and disarms police and removes arms from everybody.

Different situation, different solution.

But, as a point of note, as a result of the Dunblane massacre of children, gun owners who were members of gun clubs had to keep their guns under lock and key at the gun club.

UK has plenty of violence. My son was stabbed with a knife in the neck (could have killed him), I have been mugged twice.

Plenty of boys at my old school had shot guns for hunting, but they were kept under lock and key in the housemaster's study.

We were all trained in use of .22 and .303 rifles.

[essence]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Researchers admit that comparisons of crime data between countries must be viewed with caution because of differing criminal justice systems and how crimes are reported and measured.

A Home Office spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading. Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.

This is the important bit. I would treat the headlines with great caution. But I do not dispute that crime is a problem. Nor do I suggest the US follows the UK in policy.

I could go on and do lots of research to find a better analysis, but I don;t have the time and any conclusions are unlikeley to be applicable to the US situation.

The quote is from the Daily Telegraph, at the time of the last election, and is clearly designed to increase support for the conservatives, who were at the time in opposition.

[essence]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Need to add that about ten years ago they started arming the London police.

Certain police have always been armed, maybe that proportion has increased, but the average UK policeman is not armed at present.

[essence]

For some comparative figures look at:

http://www.juancole.com/2012/07/58-m...775-in-us.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rate_by_decade

although the conclusions drawn in the first link are nearly as assine as CoG's post.

It is tiresome to correct stupid posts, but I can;t leave it there unchallenged.

[CuteOldGuy]

I didn't even mention you in my post, Essence. What made you think it was aimed at you?

[essence]

You know you have wet dreams about me every night.

[Yssup Rider]

did he send you flowers?

[essence]

Not yet.

[joe bloe]

It's starting to sound like "A Clockwork Orange." Great Britain has been ruined by it's socialist nanny state economy and it's liberal immigration policies. Like Margaret Thatcher said, eventually you run out of other people's money. Crime and poverty are handmaidens.

Stanley Kubrick and Anthony Burgess were prophetic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7fO3bzPeBQ

[essence]

Have you read Chinua Achebe's novel title 'Things fall apart' ?

[CuteOldGuy]

You have an odd interest in what I dream about. Kinda creepy, really.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by essence

Have you read Chinua Achebe's novel title 'Things fall apart' ?

No. Did he get the title form Yeat's poem? Robert Bork got the title of his book, "Slouching Towards Gomorrah" from the same poem. "The Second Coming" seems to capture the spirit of the times. I think we're entering a dark age.

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

[LexusLover]

What was the Declaration of Independence?

Refresher: http://www.congressforkids.net/Indep...laration_1.htm

I thought we were gonna do things different over here?