above the law, literally

[Longermonger]

I have a question. Let's say you got on a plane and joined the mile high club with a professional woman. Would it be illegal in the state you got ON the plane, the state you got OFF the plane, or the state(s) you flew over while you were doing the deed? What if you did it while your plane circled a major city that has 50 little villages with their own laws?

It seems like a private plane would be untouchable.

[BiggestBest]

In short, if you are a "2-minute wonder" you'll probably break fewer laws than if you are the Energizer Bunny. (But what fun is that?)

A few interesting discussions here:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo....main/2508881/

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1064913AARMt4W

http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...s-jurisdiction

And step-by-step instructions if you need them:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2086945_have-sex-airplane.html

[1963Cobra]

The step by step are pretty accurate - I would add get a seat in the rear of the plane.

My experience was on a Red Eye from Hawaii. last summer. We were in the air for more than 8 hours. Waited until we were half way home to "wake up". Biggest issue was keeping her quiet ! Call it sitting K-9 and she was starting to get vocal. Had some pretty funny looks from the passengers in the back of the plane as we exited the plane.

If sex is the mile high club what do you call under the blanket mutual stmulation during the red eye? Just have you SO wear a skirt and rub away!!!

[CaptainKaos]

I've got another question, kind of like that. What if someone opened a brothel on an Indian Reservation. Would that be illegal? If prostitution was a federal crime, then how could there be a Bunny Ranch in Nevada? And since states don't control reservations, wouldn't only federal laws apply?

[Bubba]

States can elect to permit prostitution....just as some counties in Nevada have. I am no lawyer but I believe state law overrides federal law for most things.

[midwestmonique]

I don't know about that. The feds have been busting people in cali for their weed and state law says its ok to have it with a prescription.

[Guest121212]

In most instances, federal trumps state . . .

The Constitution's Supremacy Clause makes it clear that any law passed by Congress trumps state law or constitution. Article IV, clause 2, specifically reads, "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof ... shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."

So, generally speaking, federal supersedes state. Federal statute is superseded by the US Constitution.

HOWEVER, the waters get muddied . . .

In May 2009, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the landmark case brought by San Diego County, effectively negating any claim that federal law supersedes state law. See this page for a very cursory overview. Google the topic if you're interested in the issue, it makes a good read and lively debate.

As for US statutes re: prostitution, there are very few and there is NO federal statute specifically "outlawing" prostitution, as has been discussed previously in depth here on ECCIE and ASPD - see http://prostitution.procon.org/view....ourceID=000119 and see section I.

The whole "Indian Reservation" issue is a legal nightmare that has been discussed since almost day one of granting the tribes sovereignty and territory . . . it will never be completely "put to rest" until it is tried (opened) and shut down (if it indeed is) and the US Supreme Court will most likely weigh in, and no tribe has pushed it that far, that I am aware of . . . yet. It has been brought to vote (the proposal to open a brothel on reservation land) at many tribal council meetings and consistently it is voted down each time. In Arizona, the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community has the issue raised at almost every meeting - it is always dismissed immediately.

In every OPINION, it should be perfectly legal, however, the US has statutes that prohibit their citizenry from crossing international boundaries to pay for sex (currently targeted at individuals that travel for sex that involves a minor in the country visited), and it is that statute that typically quashes the proposal as it (said statute) may be (will be, most likely) rapidly amended by Congress to cover non-tribal members that cross a tribal boundary to pay for sex - in fact, several legislators have threatened to strengthen the laws with that very wording if the tribes attempt to open a brothel on a reservation. With that consideration, it will most likely only ever be "legal" for a tribal member to pay for services on a reservation in a tribal controlled brothel staffed by tribal prostitutes, and non-tribal members would be subject to prosecution when they exited the reservation if they entered it and engaged the services of a prostitute on a reservation if such brothel did indeed exist.

Kisses,

- Jackie

[JT]

Originally Posted by Bubba

I am no lawyer but I believe state law overrides federal law for most things.

I know it's a different topic but We're getting ready to find out in Arizona.

[1963Cobra]

Jackie - Your mind is a sexy as the rest of you !!

Nothing better IMHO than a lady who knows how to use her wonderful body and has brain to match that wonderful body !!

[Sens55]

Well, state laws usually govern when it comes to prostitution, tobacco and alcohol laws. The Constitution specifically states that the states have a right to govern anything not SPECIFICALLY reserved by Congress (via laws) for the Feds or violates the U.S. Constitution. These primarily deal with Interstate Commerce (in theory).

So unless Congress specifically makes a law about prostitution, it's up to the states to decide individually. And beyond that, the counties, cities and, more importantly, individuals, have all rights not specifically reserved by the higher authority. Unfortunately each layer of government has become more and more restrictive so we, as individuals, do not have much left for us.

However, since this is on a plane presumably crossing state lines, then it specifically falls into Federal jurisdiction. And, as Jackie said, there are no specific prostitution laws. However, if you cross a state line to commit a crime THEN it becomes a Federal issue. So they could probably get you for that. In reality though, I think some regulation of the FAA would prevent the intercourse part, but as far as her being a professional, how would they know unless you paid her right there on the plane.

As far as an Indian Reservation, the Feds generally don't have much say. Indian Reservations are, to a certain degree, independent nations. In a previous lifetime I worked with a few of them on some contracts. Most companies have standard Terms & Conditions that say in case of default the rules of the a certain state will govern recompense. Usually it's Delaware, which is where most public companies are incorporated. These T & C's had to be changed for the Indian Nations because they were not subject to state laws while in their own territory. It actually was treated like an International Contract. This is why Indian Reservations have casinos. There are no Federal laws about gambling at a Casino. The states govern that, and the states cannot tell the Indians what to do. The ONLY issue that you'll hear about is whether or not a particular parcel of land is truly part of their land (which was the issue in KCK).

Also, while the Feds may not be able to make laws usurping things these, they can coerce states into enacting legislation. Everyone knows the drinking age is 21, and in places used to be 18. The Feds wanted it to be 21. But only the states could vote the change, so the Feds said they would withhold any Federal money the states normally received for Interstate maintenance (most highways are "owned" by the Feds but managed by the states). Without those funds the states wouldn't be able to properly maintain them, so they all voted the change. It was definitely a stiff-arm into it for some states.

So, in short, a plane would be Federal issue, but you're more likely to get in trouble for the sex act than the prostitution part, mostly because it'll be easy to prove a sex act and nearly impossible to prove it was an act of prostitution. If on an Indian Reservation, neither the Feds or the State can do much about it.

[Bubba]

Jackie....thanks to your boyfriend for the explanation. Being a person that likes to double check things before I admit I am wrong, I did so.....and I was wrong.

I guess I was thinking about things like prostitution. As far as I can find and like Sens says, there aren't federal laws against prostitution so the states can make up their own.....as long as they don't get sideways with the constitution. Where the feds come in is transporting and working illegal aliens.

[Guest121212]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Jackie....thanks to your boyfriend for the explanation. Being a person that likes to double check things before I admit I am wrong, I did so.....and I was wrong.

Wow, I didn't know I had a boyfriend (other than my battery operated one) . . . news to me. Sad that a girl can't just get credit for making a post and having a brain . . . I'm certain if you ask around, Bubba, that you'd find I am more than capable of making an intelligent post without anyone's assistance . . . (thanks Cobra).

Frankly, if a moderator is going to come on and trash my post by saying I didn't make it myself, I don't see much reason to contribute any longer. Perhaps, that was your intent.

IF it was true that I had a boyfriend didn't YOU just OUT me? Isn't that enough for a ban or a suspension for posting personal information? Or is that only if you are a "regular member" and not a mod? Who is the next target Bubba? The gentlemen? Are you going to begin speculating on who has a wife or a girlfriend?

Since I don't have a S/O (contrary to a lot of people's belief - as if it mattered as a lot of ladies DO), I suppose that you didn't do anything other than attempt to discredit me . . . I honestly am at a complete loss as to why . . . or what I did to deserve this in the first place . . .

Even if you knew something to be a fact and you weren't just speculating and taking a stab in the dark as you did with the post you made is it not contrary to the rules and the spirit of the board to put it in print?

Amazing.

Kisses,

- Jackie

[HaleyOfOmaha]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Jackie....thanks to your boyfriend for the explanation. Being a person that likes to double check things before I admit I am wrong, I did so.....and I was wrong.

I guess I was thinking about things like prostitution. As far as I can find and like Sens says, there aren't federal laws against prostitution so the states can make up their own.....as long as they don't get sideways with the constitution. Where the feds come in is transporting and working illegal aliens.

Funny how a "MOD" can "try" to out a provider and its OK. God forbid a provider repeat something told to her (MsElena) and she's banned for it. A MOD does the same thing, but doesn't get in trouble. BTW, when I met Jackie she told me she was single and I have no reason to doubt her.

Going back to Bubba's post, care to reveal your source as to how you "know" Jackie has a boyfriend? Seeing as you were trying to force MsElena to reveal her source and since she told me she tried to help, you still banned her.

Please explain to me how this is right? A MOD isn't making money for the board, providers do. Without providers, this board is nothing but a sausage feast, but if that's what the MOD's want, go for it. This treatment is wrong.

Question for Bubba too, is MsElena's ban ever going to be lifted?

[CuteOldGuy]

Jackie, your point is well taken. However, I think Bubba was just making a lame attempt at some humor. Since I am the champion at sometimes trying to be funny and ending up being offensive, I'd let him respond before writing him (and the board) off completely. But my guess is that it sounded funny to him, and came across very differently once posted.

And before you quit posting, feel free to blame the whole thing on me. I'd rather have that than not hear from you again. You are too cool to lose.

[Longermonger]

So what you're saying is...





...Jackie needs to get her pilot's license and fly a private place from an airport on an Indian reservation. Once airborne, we can flip on the auto-pilot and cuddle in the back of the plane and make sweet sweet love as C-Span plays softly on the TV.

P.S. Oh Snap! Drama thread alert!