communism is a great concept

[dilbert firestorm]

until you put humans in power

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...t_concept.html

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm;2//016977

until you put humans in power

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...t_concept.html

It's kind of a moronic comment when you think about. Of course humans are in power; who else would be?

It reminds me of the old joke where a reporter is talking to Misses Lincoln after the assassination; he asks her, other than that Misses Lincoln how did you like the play? Saying that other than the fact that humans are in charge communism would be great is the same thing.

Communism (socialism) always fails because man is fundamentally flawed. Marx thought that humans were perfectable, that they could be indoctrinated by the State and turned into good little worker bees that were not motivated by self interest but by a concern for the common good.

The founding fathers knew that people have a core nature which locks us in to the pursuit of self interest; that's why we have a constitution that was designed to keep the people from looting the treasury.

If men were angels, no government would be necessary.
James Madison

[CuteOldGuy]

Well, it didn't take long to figure out how to loot the treasury. And ignore the Constitution. Damn.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Well, it didn't take long to figure out how to loot the treasury. And ignore the Constitution. Damn.

It worked amazingly well for over two hundred years. We did manage to build the most successful civilization in the history of the world largely because of adherance to the constitution.

Nothing lasts forever.

[CuteOldGuy]

Yes, but as countries go, we lasted the least amount of time. And "nothing lasts forever" is not an excuse for what is taking place in our country.

[nevergaveitathought]

its living and breathing and flexible and ever changing for the times, why we can make it be what we want it to be....the constitution..to help you...we know best

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Yes, but as countries go, we lasted the least amount of time. And "nothing lasts forever" is not an excuse for what is taking place in our country.

What has happened in this country since the Declaration of Independance is nothing short of miraculous. This level of freedom has never existed for a prolonged period any where in all of recorded human history. If we lose our freedom it will be a terrible tragedy.

I certainly don't excuse America's decline by saying nothing lasts forever. I'm simply observing that history shows us that all great civilations rise and fall. I hope America does continue to prosper and endure; but I'm greatly concerned that if current trends continue, we will not.

[Fast Gunn]

From my perspective, communism is an obviously flawed concept, but what is clearly obvious to some is somehow hidden to others.

As an example, it took the Chinese literally centuries before they could wake up to the obvious fact that binding the feet of women was horribly wrong even when they saw right in front of their noses clearly how the practice crippled and disfigured the feet.

. . . Maybe it will take a few more centuries for some countries to realize that communism is equally wrong and binds the soul!

[CuteOldGuy]

Joe, I wish America was that way, but it is no longer a free country. The primary reason for that is there are too many people like NeverGaveItaThought think that the Constitution means what we want it mean, which effectively negates the Constitution. Don't fall for the jingoistic patriotism, and look at things objectively, and you will see how far away we have fallen from freedom.

[Jackie S]

As long as you are on top of the heap.

When we finally go communist, I want my Dacha in Palm Springs.

As for the Great Civilization thing. Picture yourself in Rome at about 200 AD, sitting at a local pub, discussing how long the current Emperor will last. The conversation finally gets around to how the whole empire seems to be in decline, and someone says, "but this is modern times. We have the strongest Military, the greatest economy. How could anything ever happen to this great Empire"?

Well, we all know how that turned out. Every great civilization seems to follow a set pattern. At first, the people are lean and hungry, and yearning for the better things that hard work and determination can bring. But, as generations pass, the citizens find that it is much easier to simply pay people to manufacture your products, do the "mundane" work, and yes, fight their wars. It doesn't take long for the outsiders to notice.

We are already there. The quite a high percentage of Americans are fat, lazy, and looking for a handout. We now have a Mercenary Army that does all of our fighting for us, simply so we won't have to miss a single episode of "The Kardashians".

I give us another 75 years, tops. That will put the USA at about 300 years old, ready to go into History as another fallen civilization.

[Fast Gunn]

I hope you are dead wrong, Jackie.

. . . I shudder to think how this great country will crumble if you are right!

However, even the all mighty sun that makes civilization possible on this planet is destined to burn out in about 5 billion years.

. . . We will all need to find a new home soon!

Originally Posted by Jackie S

As long as you are on top of the heap.

When we finally go communist, I want my Dacha in Palm Springs.

As for the Great Civilization thing. Picture yourself in Rome at about 200 AD, sitting at a local pub, discussing how long the current Emperor will last. The conversation finally gets around to how the whole empire seems to be in decline, and someone says, "but this is modern times. We have the strongest Military, the greatest economy. How could anything ever happen to this great Empire"?

Well, we all know how that turned out. Every great civilization seems to follow a set pattern. At first, the people are lean and hungry, and yearning for the better things that hard work and determination can bring. But, as generations pass, the citizens find that it is much easier to simply pay people to manufacture your products, do the "mundane" work, and yes, fight their wars. It doesn't take long for the outsiders to notice.

We are already there. The quite a high percentage of Americans are fat, lazy, and looking for a handout. We now have a Mercenary Army that does all of our fighting for us, simply so we won't have to miss a single episode of "The Kardashians".

I give us another 75 years, tops. That will put the USA at about 300 years old, ready to go into History as another fallen civilization.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Joe, I wish America was that way, but it is no longer a free country. The primary reason for that is there are too many people like NeverGaveItaThought think that the Constitution means what we want it mean, which effectively negates the Constitution. Don't fall for the jingoistic patriotism, and look at things objectively, and you will see how far away we have fallen from freedom.

I'm against judicial activism in all forms whether on the left or the right. In my opinion judicial activism occurs on the left much more frequently than the right. The very fact that ruling based on original intent is considered to be an outdated view by the left confirms that they hold the constitution in contempt.

If the court does not rule based on the original meaning of the words written by the founders, the integrity of the document is completely compromised; I believe that is exactly the intention of the left.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Yes, but as countries go, we lasted the least amount of time. And "nothing lasts forever" is not an excuse for what is taking place in our country.

What on Earth are talking about? "We lasted the least amount of time" Let me think, what countries lasted a shorter length of time? How about the Soviet Union? I think they lasted approximately seventy years. I'm not a historian, but I think that saying that America lasted the least amount of time of any country is probably kind of silly.

Besides I'm pretty sure America isn't officially over yet. Who knows, maybe we'll clean up our act and last a while longer.

[dilbert firestorm]

Is Switzerland one of the longest lasting gov?

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

From my perspective, communism is an obviously flawed concept, but what is clearly obvious to some is somehow hidden to others.

As an example, it took the Chinese literally centuries before they could wake up to the obvious fact that binding the feet of women was horribly wrong even when they saw right in front of their noses clearly how the practice crippled and disfigured the feet.

. . . Maybe it will take a few more centuries for some countries to realize that communism is equally wrong and binds the soul!

It's a terrible thing to consider that communism in some will endure. But the truth is it may very well. In all of recorded human history freedom is very much the exception to the rule. Tyranny in some form seems to be the norm.

For hundreds of years monarchy was the accepted norm. We appear to have evolved beyond living under a king. Maybe we'll evolve out of commumism/socialism eventually.

The Bible says that only a dog returns to it's own vomit. Unfortunately we humans seem to return to the vomit of communism over and over again.

PS

I'm guessing you just watched "Snow Flower"