Explicit Emails/PMs With Providers...

[eyefo]

I've searched posts for an answer to this, but haven't been able to find one.

First... I know that providers usually don't like to talk about specific sex practices in emails or PMs.

But if the client and provider DO NOT mention a fee or refer to one in any way, would a conversation something like this "cross the legal line?

Client: I'd really love for you to diddle my orifices and dine on my precious bodily baby batter fluid.

Provider: I was thinking the same thing... can't wait to taste your baste!


Shyster John says:

Texas Penal Code Sec. 43.02. PROSTITUTION.

(a) A person commits an offense if he knowingly:
(1) offers to engage, agrees to engage, or engages in sexual conduct for a fee; or
(2) solicits another in a public place to engage with him in sexual conduct for hire.
(b) An offense is established under Subsection (a)(1) whether the actor is to receive or pay a fee. An offense is established under Subsection (a)(2) whether the actor solicits a person to hire him or offers to hire the person solicited.


So using my client/provider conversation as an example, at least to me it seems there has been NO OFFENSE committed in the email or PM between the two parties.

I understand the provider may not want to indulge in explicit talk since its "too close" to the commission of an offense, but it does not seem to me anything one or both parties could be "charged" for were the email or PM discovered by authorities.

Is this correct?

[KayC_K]

Why wouldn't you just email a non provider ?

[eyefo]

Because my question has to do with legal or illegal conduct with providers. The question doesn't pertain to private individuals who don't have sex for money.

[Unique_Carpenter]

Ignoring that most providers will get hacked off, delete the communication, and not see you;
Those who dance on the razors edge end up with bloody feet.
You're missing the whole point about minimizing risk factors.

[eyefo]

No, I'm not ignoring risk factors... I'm trying to ask a very precise question, that's all... its a technical legal question, not a general "what's the best way to talk to providers" thing.

[Unique_Carpenter]

So if vice somehow gets a copy of the communication, and decides to do something about it, are you asking that simply because you don't mention $ in a documented communication with a professional gal who has posted rates, that vice can't pick you up, book you, and tell you to explain it to a judge?

[eyefo]

Well, taking your scenario, first the vice cop will have to prove that "you" wrote it. But how did he legally get the email without hacking the account(s), assuming one of the parties (hooker or john) is not undercover?

Is the following email or PM somehow "found" by a vice cop really an offer and agreement to engage in sex for money?

Client: I'd really love for you blow me.

Provider: I was thinking the same thing... I can't wait!

And let's say the vice cop shows up on the door step of the client or provider asks if they wrote this or did the act as implied and they say: I have no knowledge of this and don't believe I care to talk with you, officer, other than identify myself. My attorney, however, will be happy to talk with you.

Now what's the cop do? Arrest them?

That email could simply be a fantasy... what's to prove its not.

Where is the probable cause for an arrest?

Even if the provider or client were stupid enough to say: Yes, I wrote this.... how does it prove prostitution?

[CurvyKatie]

This scenario has so many ridiculous hypotheticals.

Vice is not scouring emails and reading lame sex chats hoping on the off chance to secure a vague misdemeanor charge.

You can sex chat with anyone you want to. Sex chat is not illegal (provided both parties are of legal age).

But you are an idiot if you wanna sex chat with a provider that you are on your way to meet.

[Unique_Carpenter]

Thank you katie.
That's where this was going.

Eye, you're missing the point where a cop can haul anyone he/she wants to in front of a judge. They usually don't.

But arguing over stuff with the beat cop or a narco/vice cop is a sure fire way to end up sitting in the back of a patrol car, or at the station for a while. Even if a judge tosses it a couple days later.

[eyefo]

OK... I've been trying to construct a similar scenario that actually happened to me... so without naming the provider, I'll just tell you what happened.

I PM this lady, introduce myself, very polite, then say I'm really interested in an activity she states in her ads. I tell her I'd like to PM a bit about it, but NOT without her permission.

She replies that she doesn't really discuss services until after she's met a client in person, but she has no objection to me telling her "a scenario". OK... so I tell her the scenario, an erotic story with two people that could be any man and woman... no names.

She says she likes the story and that's the end of the explicit stuff... a "story" from me, with no discussion. She says contact me when I'd like to visit.

A number of days later I PM her and tell her the time and date I'd like to visit and she says fine. I reply saying "that's great" and that I'll text her close to appointment time and let her know I'm on my way.

Then I add..."and I hope we can enjoy the scenario I mentioned the other day."

Shortly thereafter I get an angry email from her saying she told me she does NOT talk about explicit things in email or text, that the "scenario" I sent days earlier could get her "charged"... and then she went radio silent on me.

WTF! I did not say one explicit word to her, and how the hell is she going to get "charged" and with what?

So I'm still trying to figure out what I did wrong... and I don't think I did anything wrong other than somehow pissing her off...

No talk about money or activities... just a friendly reference to an erotic "story" I had sent with her permission days earlier.

So that's my real issue here... I can't see that I did anything wrong, and I'm wondering what is going on with this lady. As a practical matter, it seems paranoid to me.

Maybe Curvy Katie can tell me what rule I broke?!

I certainly can't see any legal jeopardy in this instance.

[Unique_Carpenter]

You broke the be courteous and discrete in your communications unwritten rule that most of us follow.
Seriously consider reading more of the sticky threads that are posted.

But, here's a key comment of Jon's that is absolutely the thing to understand:

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

An experienced hobbyist learns to tell the provider he wants to see: (1) his references (provider handle, phone number, and email); (2) a few days and times the provider can choose from to see him; and (3) the amount of time he wants to book. THAT'S IT. NOTHING ELSE.

When the provider and hobbyist are together, in person, money will be discreetly paid and sexual activities will take place, but there should be no discussion of money or sex beforehand. The script has already been written. Now all the players need do is act it out.

From this thread:
https://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=2157018

[eyefo]

Well I think that's good advice... hadn't seen that from SJ.

Certainly I didn't follow Jon's advice accurately.
And it was a mistake for me to want to "tell a story".

But this particular provider OK'd it and should not have, and then had a fit when I made an oblique reference to activities vis a vis reminding her of the story.

Then, I find reviews of her by a client who talks in the review of multiple emails he had with her discussing specific acts up to the time of making an appointment.

Me thinks perhaps she is "inconsistent" at best and maybe flaky as well...

Nevertheless, I think I'll leave her to someone else and move on.

Jon's advice is spot on, I think, and jibes with his other recommendations.

Thanks for pointing that out...That's the way to do it, I think

[rexdutchman]

No move on ,

[Crock]

Originally Posted by eyefo

I certainly can't see any legal jeopardy in this instance.

You're going to go pay someone to spend an hour with them. And prior to that, in writing, you tell a sexual story and say that you want to make that scenario play out during the time that you'll be paying her. You've never met her before.

You don't see the potential legal repercussions here? If you were a cop, that's ironclad evidence to use against her. If you hadn't told your little story, more things would have to happen to make a prostitution charge stick.

C'mon, man, think before you do stupid stuff like this. She handled this right, and you bungled it big time.

[CurvyKatie]

Originally Posted by eyefo

Then I add..."and I hope we can enjoy the scenario I mentioned the other day."

You basically asked to perform a specific service when you alluded to the prior conversation. That is where you went wrong.


I am surprised she entertained listening to your story at all. However, bear in mind, not all ladies are versed in what is legally acceptable. I mean, you still see ladies on BP posting those stupid memes where they say "this is not an offer" or some other stupid shit about "entrapment" and blah, blah, blah...

So not every lady is up to date on proper screening methods, etc. It's not like they give classes on this stuff. Therefore, different ladies do different things without really knowing the law.

But forget about all that...the lady is simply trying to cover her ass by not talking about specific sex acts with you. You should be less concerned about how the lady is covering her ass and be more concerned with the behavior that YOU just committed that will put YOU at risk.

If she were an undercover officer, you just gave her all the ammo she needed to send you to jail. You referenced a specific sex act.

If you keep doing that, we are going to see your picture posted on here as part of one of those busts where all the other sad looking dudes got busted too.

Don't be one of those dudes.

Don't talk about sex acts.