If Canada can shrink Government why can't we?

[WyldemanATX]

This is a very interesting article. I like John Stossel he is a Libertarian and I am starting to agree with a lot of the Libertarian views.

http://townhall.com/columnists/johns...ole/page/full/

[Booth]

Canada hasn't flushed billions of dollars down the drain in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[F-Sharp]

Canada has no real defense budget to speak of. Here's a challenge for you Wyldeman, and perhaps this might finally present you with a little reallity...This outta be fun!

Here's a pie chart that shows a recent example of Federal Expenditures. Not sure of the year exactly, but except for military spending, it should be in the ball park at least percentage-wise. (Military spending is well over a trillion a year at the moment, in actuallity almost 1/3 of our entire budget is military of military-related).

As you go along, keep in mind that only 60%, roughly the top 5 items are currently paid for, the other 40% or so is strictly deficit.

You've replaced Obama as President and you need to either cut 40% of our budget or increase revenue by 40% just to come out even. Try making it 50% so we can start paying back some of the national debt @ 10% of our budget a year.

So where you gonna start cutting there buddy boy?

[WyldemanATX]

We need to cut our defense budget by getting out of countries that we have no business being in.

Social security needs to be revised for everyone under 40. I am under 40 and for that since there will not be anything left since the Federal government keeps robbing from it. Those that make and have planned for there retirement should have scaled down amount on what they can receive in Social Security. This will help with people who have paid in and need more to survive the senior years.

Federal Education department gone and let the states regulate education we need to get innovative with education since the current system is not very effective. Schools are teaching for test instead of real knowledge and creative thinking.

Unemployment would improve if we would offer an incentives for businesses to be on American soil. How do we do that you ask lower corporate taxes. If we have an environment that encourages businesses to grow you have more workers and a bigger tax base. By doing this you have less unemployment. As a direct result we would have less people on food stamps and housing assistance. I would also do away with minimum wage so that you can have more jobs for unskilled workers.

Simplify our tax code by getting rid of it. One page form everyone pays 10% or have a fair tax example just a higher sales tax. This way even illegal aliens pay taxes as well. This would also get rid of the IRS. I call the IRS legalized to steal.

Foreign Aid don't do it on a federal level let the American people give if they felt led to. This way the dollar and help go further and is not wasted.

Medicare needs to revamped as well.

To get rid of our dependance of foreign oil. I have an idea that we drill as much as possible and use what we have underground now. Offer an incentive for Americans to find a cost effective energy source. It will take about 10 years to implement the new Technology so that everyone has accessibility to it.

Lets also offer incentives for inventors and manufacturing to come back to the U.S. How about offering an incentive to get customer support centers back on U.S. Soil instead of in New Delhi so we can understand what the fuck they are saying.

I do not know if this will shrink it enough, but I think it would be one hell of a dent.

[F-Sharp]

You're not even close Wyldeman. You got a lot of ideas, errrr should I say the same ideas we've heard from every politician in the last fifty years, but you're not being specific. I want to hear numbers!

You want to cut defenses? Where you gonna cut and how much?

You gonna revise Social Security? I've paid in to that fund for over 30 years now. I dare you to touch my money! You wanna scale down my retirement while employers are no longer in the business of providing pensions? Fuck you! Ditto for Medicare. You're gonna have to pass some regulation that requires each and every U.S. employer to provide both medical FOR LIFE, and a pension plan. I didn't spend my whole life working my ass off for some company I hate so I could die homeless and hungry.

So you're gonna lower corporate taxes even further? We're already in the hole by 1.4 trillion dude, now you wanna increase our deficit even more by reducing our revenue streams? You must be living on a planet where money grows on trees!

10% tax across the board? BAHAHAHA! And you thought cutting corporate taxes would reduce our revenue stream..Watch what happens when start cutting in to what is roughly 50% of all U.S. revenue. You really thought that one through have ya?

Foreign aid...can't help but agree there. As long as you don't mind making a few new enemies at the same time you start making drastic cuts to our defense budget.

Medicare needs revamping...How exactly you gonna revamp it there buddy boy?

Get rid of foreign oil all together? Last statisitics I read was that we have enough oil in the entire world to last us another 50 years at current consumption rates. If we drilled every last hole dry in U.S, Exxon says the following:

"It is estimated that there is enough oil and natural gas offshore and in non-wilderness and non-park lands in the United States - but currently ruled off-limits for production by the federal government - to fuel 50 million cars and heat nearly 100 million homes for the next 25 years…"

Anyone else see a problem here? Well here it is. There's 250 million registered vehicles in the United State right now and 128 million houses and growing. Best guess, we would run out out of oil COMPLETELY within 5 years. You think 5$ a gallon is bad? HA! Wait til it's a $100 a gallon, about a year in to this no-so-great plan of yours, or over $1000 a gallong the last few months before running out.

You gonna "offer incentives" to your corporate friends to start hiring cheap labor here again? What kind of incentives? You gonna take Bachmann's advice and lower the minimum wage to that of India (Avg. $441 per year!) or maybe China (a little better at $865 a year)? Maybe you can offer them more tax breaks and further cut in to our revenue stream.

The only dent you've made so far (and a rather HUGE one) is in the future success and economic stability of this country.

Wanna try again now that you have a little more data to work with?

[WyldemanATX]

Let's hear your ideas sharp. I did not say I would take away your ss either. Oh ya I said let's find another energy source so we can stop importing oil. You criticize me for not reading everything. You seem very emotional and less practical.

[Vyt]

Unless something is done regarding any of the following, discussions about deficits and budgets are irrelevant:

- Medicare
- Social Security
- Defense
- Taxation

Medicare, Social Security, and Defense take up 60% of the budget. Cutting *everything* else, literally, won't help (and will also make the chaos in Greece look charmingly quaint).

Without raising taxes, one or all of the above three will need to be radically cut to bring the budget back into balance. Arguing otherwise merely shows that you cannot add simple numbers (a state which sadly most politicians seem to share).

[F-Sharp]

Just given you the facts as I understand them Dude. I have my own ideas, but I am more curious in yours. Mine are pretty simple really...

1. Go back to Clinton era tax rates of 39% for top earners and provide a one to one percentage match reduction for domestic hiring. This kills two birds with one stone as they say. Increases revenue AND creates jobs at the same time.

2. I would cut the defense budget in half. In which case we would still be outspending China three times over, instead of six as it stands now.

3. Focus on eliminating Medicare fraud. Current Medicare fraud estimates are upwards of $60 billion a year.

4. Get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan. We can go back to nation building and spreading democracy around the world after we finish taking care of our own. Yes, I am being facetious. I don't actually believe that shit. Just get the hell out and let those people fend for themselves for a change. As for this bullshit war on terrorism, go back to good old fashioned intelligence and surgical strikes. There'd be no functional terrorist organization on the planet today if we spent a trillion fucking dollars on intelligence every year instead of wasting it on pimple faced 18 years old Army recruits with their heads up their asses.

5. Eliminate any and all tax loops across the board. No more Tyco International filing from a P.O. box in Bermuda, and no more Exxon and GE hiring former IRS agents to help them with tax evasion.

6. I would keep Obama's healthcare in place, minus the requirement to have healthcare. I would however add a public option for the most dire among us and basically model our plan after France's healthcare system..the best plan in world today.

7. Energy - invest every available dollar in alternative energy research R&D. Impose regulation requiring every new consumer motor vehicle get at least 35 mpg, require every new house built to have a solar panel on it's roof, and invest in better public transportation in every major metro center in the country.

Do the math on those initiatives. Barring any major shift in industry or another world war, we'd be completely out of debt within 10 years.

Wanna hear my immigration reform plan?

[F-Sharp]

I should probably add that it's my belief that energy is going to be the biggest growing industry in the next 50 years. Hence the biggest job creating industry. This is one industry we could easily excell in if we could get a jumpstart at it. Once again be an innovative leader in something around the world. That is, besides our ability to drop bombs on people of course.

[oralick]

FWIW. I don't ever see much mention about cutting costs by Government. We all know the stories of the $120 commode seats, and the $25 screws, etc, etc. Anyone who has ever worked in a Government Bureacracy has witnessed the duplication of job responsibilities, the gathering of more employees just to justify a larger budget, by a Department. I have no doubt, after having been an employee using State and Federal funding, that this country could meet budget with the taxes paid, if Government was run like a "For Profit" business, and if Politicians could be trusted with our money.

[oralick]

I was once hired by a VP of Operations at a rather prestigious Medical School/Research Institution. His idea was to bring a private business attitude to a Government Bureaucracy, with a lot of demigogue Doctor's thrown into the mix, including some Nobel Prize winners. Change, especially in this environment, was very difficult. But when I found hard-working 5-10 year employees, and there were some, barely making over minimum wage, could not get any increases because it wasn't budgeted. And yet each year offices were told to buy new furniture and equipment each year to keep from having the budget decreased, I was incensed. Once a year there would be a equipment auction where furniture and equipment went for pennies on our tax dollars. This is Government Spending.

[oralick]

I could get into my State Contract items experiences, but I won't. I lasted 6 years, V.P lasted 5 years. In 6 years we went through 3 Purchasing Department Heads. One day I came in and I had a new office, at the end of a hall, by the back door. A new man had been hired to take my responsibilities. I know I made a difference while there, but I've never gone back because I remember what it was like before. THAT WAS MY TAX DOLLARS.

[F-Sharp]

Agreed Ora, but you have to deal with the big, serious issues first. I'm sure those fall under the 1% or less category. Kinda like going after Planned Parenthood and NPR instead of something like Medicare fraud or defense spending. Doh.

[oralick]

Sharp, have you ever seen any kind of info about what has actually been paid into Social Security, and if it had been retained separately, how much it would add up to, including interest, since its inception? It should never been allowed legally to fund anything else. It was not the Governments money for politicians to do with as they saw fit. I believe a lot of younger people either don't understand that, or choose not to think about it.

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by oralick

Sharp, have you ever seen any kind of info about what has actually been paid into Social Security, and if it had been retained separately, how much it would add up to, including interest, since its inception? It should never been allowed legally to fund anything else. It was not the Governments money for politicians to do with as they saw fit. I believe a lot of younger people either don't understand that, or choose not to think about it.

If memory serves, it's still protected and guaranteed regardless of the government's ability to use it. As far as I know, the problem is shortfall, and it's not by much either. I saw something fairly recently about it, not sure if it had any facts and figures though. Lemme think about that one and I'll see what I can come up with.

I did a real quick scan of this and it looks interesting enough..not sure who or what the source is though.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0212-09.htm