Wisconsin Democrats Whining Already

[CuteOldGuy]

They obviously had this planned for awhile. Seriously, if people are that stupid, they shouldn't be voting anyway. But I doubt that it happened this way.

http://elections.wispolitics.com/201...ction-day.html

[Guest050715-1]

Obama tweeted that he supports a usurper in a recall election because a legally elected governor ? Using this stunted logic, we should recall Obama for ram rodding a very unpopular bill - Obamacare.

[Iaintliein]

Well, hell. It's Wisconsin, everybody knows whine goes well with cheese!

[Whirlaway]

Good one I..........

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

Well, hell. It's Wisconsin, everybody knows whine goes well with cheese!

Some local reporting shows early exit polling going to Walker; winning independents 55% to 45%. If true, the final tally will be devastating to the Democrats, union thugs, Obama, and Clinton.

[texasaggie96]

To be fair, there is some logic to the requests of the labor unions that have requested this recall - to be fair to the sitting governor, there is logic in his move to ask for no onerous and burdensome labor contracts in public settings.

The reality is infinitely more complex and in the middle of the two polar extremes. There should be no reason why a trade union cannot represent workers - unions, guilds, and associations have been part of capitalism since the guilds of old protected the rights of master craftsmen. It simply ensures everyone plays ball, fairly. It is supposed to be its own form of check-and-balance.

What has happened is that some (not all) unions abused this to the point where they eek out three smoke breaks an hour, etc. On the other side, companies can work with unions through unique incentive programs, etc. However, what has happened over time is simple to see - people went and got greedy (on both sides).

We often speak, in our country, on polar sides and we talk at each other as opposed as to talking with one another. We are too afraid to see that a solution is not as easy as the right or left would have it come out in a sentence. Tea Party people are far too extremists in this light, as are the flaming liberals on the far left. Common sense, working it through, and realizing that the solution is in the middle, after discussion, and after give-and-take is by no means sexy, by no means makes headlines, but it by all means represents the reality of what truly should be.

To wit, you cannot say "Obamacare is bad" without a true intellectual explanation - what is bad? One part, two parts, a clause? We are the only industrialized nation in the western civilized world that takes no real care of its own citizens in the health sector and thus we lose the investment of ensuring the very survival of our nation through health alone. Was Obamacare over-reaching? I would argue, yes.

To wit, one can also say "letting the free market alone dictate healthcare is bad" without a similar look is bad form. The free market is bad? How? How is it bad to let a free market stand on its own and determine costs / price / etc.? Logically, it makes sense that a service rendered has a cost and society will either meet said cost or not use it. This is how mankind has functioned for centuries. However, is it fool proof? Not at all. There may exist times when we need to oversee it to ensure that it works for the better, not the worse. Letting it go with no checks is just as bad as letting a full-on healthcare system run rampant with government control.

So, where is the reality? Why not a hybrid system? If you can afford the healthcare or your work provides it, or you fall into certain tax brackets, you cannot take advantage of a near-zero dollar cost government-run system. Otherwise, you get the government care - two parallel systems working side-by-side. The beauty of this is, as many of you can figure out, that those in the lower bracket will no doubt actually want to better themselves at the fear of getting a government doctor in their future and may finally decide that doing better in life has its advantages. Like not dying from a treatable disease.

So, now, here we have again polar arguments in a state - which need not have them. Instead of running extremist, run on a solution. It would make the world a better place.

[JD Barleycorn]

I see that the argument is all about what the UNIONS need and deserve but what about the worker. You know, that individual that the union claims they represent. They force them to join the union and the they take, over their objections, money from the worker to support democratic candidates. Sounds more like slavery to me as defined by Thomas Jefferson.

[Texas Contrarian]

[Whirlaway]

These pigs won't self regulate; they will just keep stuffing themselves on our hard labor. The only solution is for voters (we the butchers) to trim the fat outta these porkers. And the only Americans I see who are stepping up for the assignment are the Tea Party activistis = God Bless Them One And All.

[CuteOldGuy]

Some of those pigs need to be slaughtered, Libertarian style.

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

These pigs won't self regulate; they will just keep stuffing themselves on our hard labor.

Yes, but if a tax increase sufficient to pay for all the largesse encourages the Golden Geese to fly over state lines and set up shop somewhere else, there will hardly be a voter left in Wisconsin who sympathizes with the porkers' cause.

I hope it doesn't come to that; the process would unfold slowly and would be very painful and very ugly.

[Whirlaway]

COG: I did a google search of wisconsin LP position on the recall vote and couldn't find any idea of what their position is. Do you know.

Amazingly, their offical website has alot of other bullshit (prison reform, marijuana, income taxes, etc) but nothing on the hot political topic in their state. What's up with that?

The LP is a joke if they are dodging this issue. They don't deserve to lead or hold public office.

[Whirlaway]

Funny...but my neighbors hogs are very determined and capable of crossing our fences to get at my fields of green.

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Yes, but if tax increases sufficient to pay for all the largesse encourages the Golden Geese to fly over state lines and set up shop somewhere else, there will hardly be a voter left in Wisconsin who sympathizes with the porkers' cause.

[CuteOldGuy]

C'mon. You know the Libertarians are opposed to public sector unions. Get real, WW.

[Whirlaway]

I don't know that; where can i learn that they are? I would like to see their position statement on that issue. Can you provide the link?

Are they against it in the same way the Republicans Party is against earmarks or spending?

Thanks in advance.

[CuteOldGuy]

I don't live in Wisconsin, and I'm not going to defend them. I just know that Libertarian philosophy would oppose public sector unions. And the Libertarians are sincere. Unlike the Republicans.

But I have an idea. Let's elect a few Libertarians to high office, and see what they do. If they turn out to be as phony as the Democrats and Republicans, you can have double your deficit back.