A Pay for Play Summary and Generic Conversation - Our Options/Their Competition

[Whispers]

Rates are getting a lot of discussion lately from Indies....

Some Ladies I know have asked what's up lately in guys being tight with their money....

Strippers I know are complaining that money is less accessible.

I was asked where the money is being spent more than once.

Let's have an open discussion of options for P4P.

Independent Providers
Agency Providers
Back Page Girls
Street Walkers
Massage Parlors
Jack Shacks
Strippers
LTRs/Mistresses/Sugar Babies

Pick one, two or all of them and define what they represent to you.

1) Define the experience at it's Best.
2) Range the Rate you pay for the experience.
3) Layout the time you get at the rate defined and how you spend it.

4) Honestly assess some Pros and Cons.

Let's see some of the forums "experts" lay it out as they see it as well as some every day guys......

Let's try not to debate over why what you do is better or why someone else's perception is incorrect.

Describe it as a month of your hobby experiences....

For example.... If you can afford $900 a month and that is spread across 3-4 sessions with Indies then tell us what you get for that $900 and why it's right for you.... Tell us how you maximize your budget from the available options....

[Whispers]

Over the Years I have played across the Indy, Agency, Stripper and LTR/Mistress/SugarBaby fields... I've never hit the streets or MPs stateside.


My preference has always been in finding and keeping one special lady close and as exclusive as I can arrange.... I like knowing that no matter what, on certain days of a week or month that someone is waiting to share their time with me for an extended period. To be able to relax, converse, share and be intimate with.....

Some guys call them Long Term Relationships. Others refer to it them as Sugar Babies. I have used the old school term “Mistress” as a label.

When I have an arrangement in place and a girl I am very comfortable with I work much better with fewer distractions.... I may still have the urge for some occasional strange but I spend most of my time and spare money on that one special lady.

The most consistent and lasting relationships cost me around $1600 a month. Sometimes $1200 and occasionally a little more but it tends to have averaged out around $1600.

For that amount my arrangement was typically 2 nights a week and one 3 day weekend a month…. 11 days/nights of her company….. Which was much more in line with what GFE SHOULD entail in my opinion…. Sometime she would cook… sometimes we went out… sometimes we rented and watched movies.... sometimes it was just relaxing and listening to music…..

Our time together usually would start around 6 PM and I would be gone and home by 3AM….. We usually ended up in bed at least twice over those 8 hours for at least 3 pops….

The weekends usually entailed her meeting me at noon on Friday and her getting home before 6PM Monday….. She would travel with me if I was going out of town…..


If my memory serves me well, I’ve been in 7 of these over the years that lasted 6 months or more…. And a couple of them went beyond two years….

For a guy with a monthly budget of anything over $400…… negotiating a LTR from a couple of days a month and up is not too difficult…. Consistency of a monthly allowance goes a long way with some ladies.


But it certainly is not for everyone.

Pros include considerable return on investment if you value qty of activities for the money spent. Emotional involvement if you are open to it. “Dates” and activities with a female companion. These P4P relationships can often be negotiated with civvies….



Cons would be the time and game needed to negotiate it. As well as Emotional Involvement if you cannot handle it. And of course the monthly commitment if not handled correctly.

[Whispers]

My most common and frequent experiences for a lot of years now have been strippers…. Like I tell the waitresses in the clubs that comment about how long it’s been since I’ve been in…. If I am in between “girlfriends” or about to get rid of one....then I’m out shopping for the next one….

I am not an in club player…. Although it has happened a handful of times over the years…. For those playing in the clubs right now… Value is typically in BJs and Hand Jobs that run the same price as Dances…. Girls will blow you or jack you off at a $20 per song rate… If it takes you 3 or 4 songs to pop then you just spent $60-$80….Add in that she is dancing off and on through this activity and it's a good value...


FS IN the club is expensive in my mind. It is rushed and impersonal and ranges from $100 to $300 per “pop” MSOG is never an option….


I won't go into any more on ITC....

BUT…



The real value in strippers lies in the way they value their time.



Strippers do not think in the “per hour” frame of mind. They think in a “per shift” Mentality. "If I can take the evening off and not dance and be groped by strange men for 6-8 hours trying to make $250-$300 and can make the same money relaxing and getting groped by just one guy….. Well… he IS a nice guy"…


For several years I’ve easily pulled gals out of the strip clubs to play for $250-$400.... for what would have been their entire shift…. These also typically cost me a hotel room….



It’s usually

a) meet me at the hotel for a quickie / get rid of today’s stress….

b)Go to dinner or a show….

c) Back to the hotel for 2-3 hours of MSOG playtime….



That rate has come down lately and $200-$300 is pretty easy to realize in the clubs for about a year now.…. Especially for OTC on typically slower nights....


Girls I know in this section of P4P are often introduced to friends that play for shorter periods of time. Opting just for the 2-3 hours of BCD for the same amount.


Activities are seldom any different than 1 hour sessions with Providers. For those looking for BBFS, it is more common than some like to think about.


Pros definitely have to include the value of BCD time in relation to dollars spent. $100 or less per hour between the sheets. Another Pro is the above average quality of young girls and constant turnover as compared to the Provider Market.... You also get a ride on a gal not often available to just anyone.



Cons include dealing with flakes, time and energy as well as game to identify the players and probability of drama ….

[Whispers]

When I am shopping alternatives it is all about variety and availability.... I often spend more for the "Get it Now" attitude presented in some Agencies ads.

I am looking for MSOG and almost always 2 pops inside of an hour.... It is almost always the same session activities..... Hello, your cute, blow me, thanks, tell me about yourself, listen to one of my stories, blow me a little more, Saddle up and ride and lets see how many positions we can work through before I pop which should take the remainder of the hour.

My time with Agency girls is all about me.... I seldom DATY.....

Damn I miss the days of Houston and competing Agencies where 2 were WELL Stocked with $160-$180 spinners.... Top Dollar was $250...

Southern Florida was close in the $180-$220 playing field.

But since returning to Austin I've seen limited options and prices from $250-$350 and have only occasionally played here. When I travel though... Agencies get the bulk of my dollars...

Pros typically include an often changing selection of ladies. Little to No Screening. Easy Availability. Readily available In Calls.

Cons typically are in terms of Activities . I've seen far more girls that limit DFK and BBBJ to repeat clients. Performance is often mechanical later in the day or evening. Pricing is typically higher than Indies.

[Whispers]

Although I see some Indies.... My experiences are far from normal to those of others. I usually only see girls I meet at Socials or Luncheons and I typically get to spend some time getting to know them as well as them knowing me.

This is important to me because I do not provide any screening information to any ladies I see..... Interaction with them in person as well as referrals from friends and other ladies does tend to overcome the need to screen.

Someone else will fill in the gaps here....

I hope to see some others take this on and describe their take on the experiences available and the costs involved....

As much discussion on rate as has been occurring it might be enlightening for some to realize the options available to clients.....

[Reya Sunshine]

I gather this is an exercise in which provider participation is meant to be "read only" and that leaves me wondering why you chose CO-ED rather than the male locker room?

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Reya Sunshine

I gather this is an exercise in which provider participation is meant to be "read only" and that leaves me wondering why you chose CO-ED rather than the male locker room?

A couple of reasons for why here....

1) Because it certainly COULD be beneficial for providers to read and see what is currently available in the market and what guys are willing to spend...

2) There are a considerable number of guys without Premium Access to be able to read the Locker Room threads.


I agree that the subject does not lend itself readily to a Provider actually contributing, I am sure that more than one lady has the ability to muster a representative from her following to state his preferences for that particular playing field.

I consider you one of the sharper ladies around here. I'm sure you can agree that we WILL see a female opinion posted here through some male member.

And if ANYONE can figure a way for a woman to be heard in this thread Reya..... It is certainly You!

[Elephant]

Originally Posted by Whispers

Let's have an open discussion of options for P4P.

Independent Providers
Agency Providers
Back Page Girls
Street Walkers
Massage Parlors
Jack Shacks
Strippers
LTRs/Mistresses/Sugar Babies

Independent Providers

Good Value. Post Recessionary HH rates offer a great value. Influx of Legal Teens and 20 somethings offer a great variety. For as low as $600 per month you can have a nice variety every month.

Agency Providers

Austin Agency owners seem to have too much drama surrounding them. Prefer the Agencies in Houston.

Back Page Girls

Fast Food Sex. Occasionally catch a fresh Legal Teen or College Girl, before she gets spooked.

Street Walkers

Nope!

Massage Parlors

Old Asian Women w/ fake knockers.

Jack Shacks

PWE, Pure Wealth Extraction. Self Service, absolutely worst value. A cam show achieves the same result for about a tenth the cost.

Strippers

PWE, Pure Wealth Extraction. Dislike Hustlers, would much rather fuck a indy spinner and take a nap.

Sugar Babies

Think too highly of themselves. I prefer the variety over exclusivity. For the 75% of men who earn under $80,000 they dont offer a cost effective hobby solution IMO.

[AdventureAdams]

Nothing to add, just wanted to make a observation and say that Whispers seems to always have the most cerebral topics. I may not agree with them all but I do learn alot from reading his post and others responses.

[cowboyfan2745]

IMO I think most of us like variety, probably the main reason we participate in the hobby at all. As for myself, discretionary income varies from $1500 to $2k monthly but since I'm without a current SB it's gone up even more. Please be mindful that that income was used for my SB's allowance of $700 for 4 weekend overnights a month. Yes, I know and have been told it was a sweet deal but alas all good things come to an end (job transfer and promotion for her). The remaining income was used to see providers and play in SC.

Currently, gone back to where I started in the hobby as a SC guy. Even though I have had the pleasure of meeting some very nice providers here, it's about the hunt in a SC. ITC activities has its merits for some but I'm always looking over my shoulder and really can't seem to pull the trigger literally and figuratively for fear of being caught. OTC is the area I prefer to concentrate my efforts lately, the thrill of the hunt is a big allure for me. Have I paid too much to get a stripper OTC before, of course it's not a perfect science for me and there have been times I feel like I spent way too much on the learning curve. I agree with Elephant that SC hunting can put a strain on a budget but like I mentioned I'll always be a SC guy. It's my kryptonite.

As I mentioned, I'm currently trying to find a new SB (yes, I do like the exclusivity) and once that's accomplished I'll adjust the amount I spend in SC and Indies accordingly. I stay away from the fast food choice of the hobby (BP), been there done that. TOFTT too many times and still haven't gotten my t-shirt not that I really want it. Just haven't ever wanted to use an agency because I don't want my RL info in the hands of anyone else.

Okay for those who want to flame me for spending too much on dancers right now, go right ahead but it's my budget. I've basically gone into lurker mode for sometime now and only come out of hiding every now and then.

[Vyt]

Independent Providers

Preferred when I have time to spend at least a day in advance and know I want a 'date' (i.e. an hour or more spent pleasurably and predictably). Budget for these is $$-$$$. I very rarely see one now BCD that I haven't otherwise met before and know that my time will be enjoyable... too many options, not enough time, no sense in wasting it.

Strippers

Option for when I have a few hours free with little to no notice. No assured "level of service" but I usually have a good time. Usually less expensive than an indy, sometimes far, far more expensive. Budget for a night at a club is usually $-$$, again have been known to blow the bank.

Agency Providers

Do not see due to agency surcharge and preference for indys

Street Walkers
Massage Parlors
Jack Shacks
Back Page Girls

Do not see because of no desire for that level of service and/or perceived/actual exploitation of women involved (and yes, I know, it's a fine line, that's where I draw mine)

LTRs/Mistresses/Sugar Babies

Do not see because I do not have the time or $$$ to invest in such a relationship.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by cowboyfan2745

Okay for those who want to flame me for spending too much on dancers right now, go right ahead but it's my budget.

ya can't get flamed for something you didn't define..... LEt us know what you are spending and for what kind of activity and If it's out of line I'll blast ya via PM!

This thread is more about laying out the options.....

Now.... I am PRETTY sure I remember you taking advantage of a couple of the GC offerings locally...... and you certainly did not over pay on those as I recall.....

[cowboyfan2745]

Last 3 outings:

Two young ladies total $700 for lunch, intimate apparel shopping trip, liquid refreshments and hotel room. Entire afternoon and early evening of fun.

One different lady was $300 plus hotel room for about 3 hours BCD. Next meeting was a new flat screen (under $400), lunch and hotel.

These are much better then my first attempt years ago in DFW, super hot dancer but initial investment cost me $800 plus lunch at a very nice restaurant, drinks and hotel easily pushed total cost over $1400 for the afternoon. Ouch! I basically paid to watch her eat lunch with me. Like I mentioned my learning curve has been expensive IMO. But I'm still learning and just gotta keep big head in the negotiations and not let little head take over the proceedings. My wallet has taken a beating when that happens.

And yes, those local offerings from the GC luncheons were greatly appreciated. PM me if I'm out of line for the local market.

[ng]

Whispers-another great thread. For the past several years I have consistently spent anywhere from $1000-$2000 per month for mostly Austin independents found here on Eccie. Have done the agency thing from time to time and have to say was satisfied with the results. Have always stuck with well reviewed providers found here paying anywhere from $250-$400 per hour. Have not looked so much for bargains as I have for quality. I still feel that is right for me and I have not and do not see the total ammount i spend changing.
I will say that I am looking for a change. I travel from Houston to Austin weekly, staying from 1-2 nights per visit. Stay at 4 or 5 star hotels. I am in the process of looking for an arrangement with some special girl in that I can extablish a SD/SB relationship.
As I mature in life, I realize that the thing I enjoy is pampering and treating a lady in a way that makes her feel special. I have to say that I am looking forward to finding a young lady that will be happy and satisfied to be mine while I am in town. Someone who I can leave in my room with the key while I work and trust her to not break the bank while im gone and be there waiting when I return. Someone who enjoys a quiet evening in room watching movies to taking a hot air baloon ride if we decide to.
As it relates to your thread, I see my 1000-2000 leaving the market when I locate the right girl. I know there is someone out there who either is a college student or who has a regular job (stripper or other) and $12000 to $18000 per year will make a huge difference in her standard of living.

[Fratelli]

And now from the other side of the spectrum:

I am a low-volume hobbyist. I hobby about once per month on average, twice in a good month. I have a decent enough income, but I choose to keep my hobby budget low (say from $200 - $500 per month) - it keeps me out of trouble in more ways than one, and I have other priorities.

I see strictly independent providers. I maximize my bang (pun entirely intended) for the buck by doing a lot of research, seeing only ladies well known for the quality of their BCD and TCB, and sticking mostly to a few ladies that I enjoy seeing repeatedly. I do this mainly because I've rediscovered, through the hobby, the joy of getting to know a young woman. If being a regular results in longer, more relaxed sessions or a "boyfriend" rate, so much the better. I'll see someone new occasionally, but that usually results in a dilemna - unless I've screwed up my research, I'll probably want to see her again, and I can only have a few regulars.

I don't go near backpage. If they aren't on ECCIE, I don't know about them (though I'll usually book someone new through P411 for the streamlined screening that usually results).

I don't see agency girls - though I've been tempted - because I figure if the shit ever hits the fan, agencies are more likely to be LE targets than Indy's and thus a risk to their clients. A couple of the indies I see also book through an agency, but I book them independently. The fact that they also book through an agency concerns me a bit, but not enough to stop seeing them. I don't know if my info gets shared with the agency, I doubt it but should probably ask.

SWs? You must be joking.
MPs? No, same issue as agencies. If I want an FBSM, there are independent providers.
Jack Shacks? Why? (Thats a rhetorical question.)

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been in a strip club since the days when my buddies and I were having bachelor parties. Spending an afternoon or evening drinking in a club, much less playing, is incompatible with my personal and professional life.

SB arrangements are very tempting in theory, but I think the time and money commitment required are more than I'm able/willing to pay. I'd be more likely to strike up a regular arrangement with one of the indies that I see, though I haven't done that, either.

I have no way of knowing for sure, but I suspect that I am more representative of the "average" hobbyist than are those guys who spend significant time and dollars on P4P.