A question of Liberty...

[DNinja69]

I am extending an invitation to stop dancing around the subject within other threads and have what I hope to be a plain spoken and straight forward discussion about Liberty with regard to the gay community.

Liberty to me means that everyone is afforded their right to make personal and family choices (the context for these are choices that don't directly affect others or infringe on someone else's Liberty) as they choose without regard to how the rest of us feel about it.

If a man and woman can enter a marriage contract then two men or women should be able to as well. If someone wants to adopt a child their being gay or trans should not be a factor. A government position whether elected, appointed, enlisted, or hired should be available to everyone qualified without regard to their sexuality. These are foundational values for me as my regard for Liberty as outlined in our Constitution is something sacred to me and I would like to hear from those who agree and disagree. My ask here is that you show your work.

Since the idea is personal choice that does not involve others I am not asking about restrooms, competitive sports, etc. Just day to day Freedom to have the same opportunities everyone else does.

[Jacuzzme]

Pretty pointless ask, given that they already have the same opportunities as everyone else.

[DNinja69]

Would most people included within the scope of my question agree that they have the same opportunities? Theirs is the opinion of record on that and that is not they story I hear from them but let me give a golf clap to those unwilling to even address the subject in a public forum.

I would argue that for people who seek to dictate or otherwise influence what is appropriate for other's life choices if you are not able to discuss it then maybe its an ideology that's past its 'best by' date.
Everyone of us deserves the same Liberty.

[MrWonderland]

Back in the '90's I would agree with you. The gay community wanted equal treatment under the law and argued that what they did in the bedroom was no ones business but their own. This is a position most Americans can support.

Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. Gender ideology is now imposed at gunpoint by Federal, State and local legislatures, inside schools and at the work place. That is why there is such resentment from so many Americans.

Please get back in the closet and leave our children alone.

[HDGristle]

At gunpoint, eh?

[Salty Again]

Originally Posted by MrWonderland

Back in the '90's I would agree with you. The gay community wanted equal treatment under the law and argued that what they did in the bedroom was no ones business but their own. This is a position most Americans can support.

Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. Gender ideology is now imposed at gunpoint by Federal, State and local legislatures, inside schools and at the work place. That is why there is such resentment from so many Americans.

Please get back in the closet and leave our children alone.

... No dancing-about or dodging with THIS responce.

Just a straight-forward and honest opinion.

... And one that I surely agree-with.

#### Salty

[DNinja69]

Originally Posted by MrWonderland

Back in the '90's I would agree with you. The gay community wanted equal treatment under the law and argued that what they did in the bedroom was no ones business but their own. This is a position most Americans can support.

Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. Gender ideology is now imposed at gunpoint by Federal, State and local legislatures, inside schools and at the work place. That is why there is such resentment from so many Americans.

Please get back in the closet and leave our children alone.

To be fair let's include the 2000's when our sitting President rallied to outlaw gay marriage and restrict the Liberty our LGBTQ citizens should enjoy. While there are some who seek to use schools as a battle ground (on both sides lets be fair) there are also minors with rights and expectations of fair treatment. It's one thing to restrict medical procedures it is entirely something else to tell a teenager many of whom enter the work force in high school = paying taxes = representation what choices (how they dress, pronouns...) they can make.

Nobody is going back in a closet and a tiny sliver of the queer community is trying to do anything but give children fair treatment.

Adding Salty to my response this question if for both of you. Even if I were to agree with your stance can you make a legal case for any of it beyond transition procedures and sporting events? Not what you or I want but legally can anyone other than their parent/guardian force a high school student to abide by your way or would that not be rights violations?

[Salty Again]

... Mate, be more exact in just which question you
are asking? ... Once I understand - then I'll answer.

#### Salty

[DNinja69]

(Staff edit) Nate instead of Natalie and dress like a boy (no mention of restrooms or playing sports) is it legal try and make them be Natalie?

[Salty Again]

... To answer your question, DNinj' - it would depend on
just whom is trying to make Nate into Natalie.

... If it's Nate 'imself - then if he's below the age of 18,
then Nate's PARENTS would need to accept that decision.

##### Salty

[DNinja69]

Parents have the final word. Not elected officials. Not school administrators.

[Salty Again]

Originally Posted by DNinja69

Parents have the final word. Not elected officials. Not school administrators.

... But what about BEFORE the "final word"??

WHY do the schoolhouses seek to keep parents
from decision-making??

#### Salty

[DNinja69]

Schools on some level are an extension of state and local government. In some areas there will be efforts to overstep and others may be more willing to give in and let parents have more of a say in some situations than might be reasonable. Change may not be swift but there are checks and balances up to and including legal action and for me the focus should always be on students not politics.

For those who embrace Liberty it is a pretty simple formula. First is SHOULD something be done not CAN but is a need demonstrated. Second is to address the issue directly and only to the extent needed. These are Conservative values. I see a lot of people who would use that word to describe themselves asking the government do to a lot more than simply work towards solutions.

[Salty Again]

... Another fair-minded responce from you.

But I'm NOT seeing parental concern as "political"...

#### Salty

[Devo]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

At gunpoint, eh?

And, the cops in Kali who are going to enforce the law that parents must endorse their childrens transition, or, what?

You think they aren't going to be armed?