Houston Cops killing unarmed and dangerous invalid...

[fetishfreak]

http://reason.com/blog/2012/09/23/ho...oots-threateni

Why is it that our soldiers are expected to put the life of enemy civilians above there own, yet our police force can get away with shooting first and asking questions later.

How skewed has our citizens view of liberty become?

[acp5762]

Don't jump to any conclusions. This unfortunate incident hasn't been deemed justifiable yet. It's still under investigation.

[Guest123018-4]

Ont only was he unarmed he was unlegged too.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by acp5762

Don't jump to any conclusions.

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, depending on the result. If it had been a weapon and the other officer was shot and killed he would be wrong for not defending the other officer, and now he is blamed because it was only a "pen" that the guy was waving around. Unfortunately (or fortunately) he cannot be judged by what was discovered after the shooting ... it is a reasonable subject standard based on the information available immediately prior to the shooting.

[acp5762]

Yeah you're right. Their dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. That Hospital or whatever it is never should have called HPD anyway. They are by state standards suppose to have Orderlys to handle disgruntled patients. A crime was never committed therefore, and once those Officers realized that they should have advised the staff they needed to handle their own patient problems. Iam really surprised these Officers allowed themselves to get into this situation in a controlled environment like a Hospital. None of us were there so we'll just have to wait for the official out come.

[camouflage]

I though that was why the use of tazers has been so highly advocated? An alternative to deadly force to subdue a suspect. acp you are correct, LE should have never been involved in an in-house situation like that.

[acp5762]

Well I don't know what HPD's Budget is but not all Depts issue Tazers to every Officer. A tazer would have been a better choice though, or Pepper Spray his ass if possible without getting the other Officer too.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by acp5762

A tazer would have been a better choice though, or Pepper Spray his ass if possible without getting the other Officer too.

#1: Tazers are not always the answer .. and indoors pepper spray is not !
#2: Officers are often assigned to hospitals for patient and employee safety... many officers have an "association" with hospitals due to victims being brought there, as well as the officers themselves when they get injured, so they may respond aggressively to quell a disturbance.
#3: Emphasizing what I said ... the standard is what the reseaonable officer saw BEFORE the action was taken and not what was discovered afterwards. It doesn't matter if the guy didn't have any legs or not from the standpoint of whether or not he appeared to be threatening to the other officer ...

http://defendyourself101.ca/tags/how-use-pen-weapon

[Jackie S]

This could have been a "suicide by cop".
I have lived in Houston for my entire life, and this type of shit has been going on forever.

If they would have been doing what they are paid to do, that is, out on the freeway writing tickets, this guy would still be alive.

[fetishfreak]

You are all missing the point. If our armed forces are expected to follow the rules of engagement, the number one rule being, do not fire until fired upon, then why should our police force be allowed to shoot first and ask questions later?

I am saying that they should be held to an even higher standard as our armed forces. Our government send soldiers into foreign lands were much of the local population hates them. They are expected to put themselves in harms way, and are not even allowed to protest it.

Many officer involved shootings are the result of cops making decisions to use lethal force, then claim self defense. The investigations of these incidents often clear the officer of any wrong doing and are deemed to be within departmental policy. I believe the investigations are typically a formality and that rarely does an officer get any disiplinary action unless there is an associated public outcry.

I think that since cops are unionized and soldiers are not that they are afforded a protection that the soldiers do not have. I feel that if cops were to be held to the same standard as a soldier with regard to rules of engagement that we would have a lot fewer of these type shootings.

Ask yourself, is it better to have a few more cops die in the line of duty because they have to make certain that an actual threat to their safety exists before they use lethal force, or that many more citizens die that posed no lethal threat to the officers.

I for one believe the police are too jumpy and are not held accountable nearly enough.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by fetishfreak

If our armed forces are expected to follow the rules of engagement, the number one rule being, do not fire until fired upon, then why should our police force be allowed to shoot first and ask questions later?

If a guy was pointing a weapon at you and behaving in a somewhat irrational manner, would you want the cop to wait until the crazy guy shot you before the cop fired?

[fetishfreak]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

If a guy was pointing a weapon at you and behaving in a somewhat irrational manner, would you want the cop to wait until the crazy guy shot you before the cop fired?

If I were in a situation like that I would not expect to see a cop anywhere in sight. If there was one, I would expect them to try to use non lethal force since, use of bullets will likely escalate the situation. However, I would, probably take matters into my own hands and get myself to safety first.

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, depending on the result. If it had been a weapon and the other officer was shot and killed he would be wrong for not defending the other officer, and now he is blamed because it was only a "pen" that the guy was waving around. Unfortunately (or fortunately) he cannot be judged by what was discovered after the shooting ... it is a reasonable subject standard based on the information available immediately prior to the shooting.

"if it had been a weapon?"

"he cannot be judged by what was discovered after the shooting?"

Dude what country or planet are you living on?

If you or I were to blow someone away under any circumstances like these we'd have no defense....NONE.

My daddy taught me when I was 6 years old to never shoot at anything unless I knew what I was shooting at....duh.

What happened here is what happens every day with municipal policemen in this country. They are frightened and over-react and shoot at the first sign that there might be danger. Then when they start shooting they shoot uncontrolled and often don't stop til their clips are empty. They're just out of control in dangerous situations. Many policemen on our municipal police forces shouldn't be police. They are weak, frightened, very badly trained and even worse managed. Strong, confident individuals are not so prone to over-react with force. We need to get the wimps out of the police. It's the wimps who also over-react by brutalizing ordinary citizens who just don't want to comply. It's the wimps who become bullies because they're too scared to use normal caution or else they have something to prove....to themselves and their buddies.

Back in the days of the old west the most disgraceful thing anyone could do would be to shoot an unarmed man. But today it's just a mistake if you couldn't see all that well.

[acp5762]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

This could have been a "suicide by cop".
I have lived in Houston for my entire life, and this type of shit has been going on forever.

If they would have been doing what they are paid to do, that is, out on the freeway writing tickets, this guy would still be alive.

They were doing their job. They both were dispatched to that location. They certainly couldn't turn down the call.

[pyramider]

Fetishfreak must have mistaken Dallas PD and Houston PD. In Houston the job gets done.