Chinese

[Rudyard K]

TB's comment made me remember something that I've wondered about...and am curious whether any of you folks have an idea?

Originally Posted by ThrillBill88

As a result, we will all be speaking Chinese in the next 10 years.

What happens if the US says, "Stick it up your ass" on all or a large portion of the debt held by foreign Govs...particulalry the Chinese? They need us more than we need them to sell their goods, don't they?

In other words...If you sell 90% of your goods to WalMart...and Walmart owes you a sh*t pile of money...and they stiff you on a large portion of it...but they will still buy and pay for new goods...so your 90% outlet for your goods is still there...Well then, What are you options?

Is the US "Too Big to Fail"?

[Guest053011]

Originally Posted by Marshall

My guess is war, and with BO as Commander-in-Chief...........

And wars are usually won by those that can out-produce, and keep sending out soldiers.

We don't have enough factories to convert - they have many. Along with a vast population to conscript.

I think war would only mean that the US would be talking Chinese a lot faster, probably in about 3 - 4 years. We will always need goods to buy, and if China wins a war, they can make sure we depend on their goods.

" China is a sleeping giant, Napoleon once warned. 'Let her sleep, for when she wakes she will shake the world.'"

Manufacturing has to come back to North America.

Every hugely successful civilization thought they were too big to fall - and they all fell. The US will see it's sunset one day, it's naive to think anything will last forever.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Is the US "Too Big to Fail"?

The Chinese economy would tank big time without us. We may be too big to fail.

[acp5762]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

TB's comment made me remember something that I've wondered about...and am curious whether any of you folks have an idea?



What happens if the US says, "Stick it up your ass" on all or a large portion of the debt held by foreign Govs...particulalry the Chinese? They need us more than we need them to sell their goods, don't they?

In other words...If you sell 90% of your goods to WalMart...and Walmart owes you a sh*t pile of money...and they stiff you on a large portion of it...but they will still buy and pay for new goods...so your 90% outlet for your goods is still there...Well then, What are you options?

Is the US "Too Big to Fail"?

All of your assumptions are now antequated. All world Governments including ours is in financial ruin. When buisnesses consoldate or merge its done to preserve assets and to continue to do buisness. The future of World Governments may have to play out the same scenario. Thats why you hear talk of " New World Order" Socialism things like that.

[Guest053011]

Originally Posted by Marshall

Manufacturing never left NA and is stronger than ever, but we just do more with less people.......

Do correct me if I'm wrong:

I know we have manufacturing here - Ontario depends on our car manufacturers.

However, the sheer # of factories in China outdoes anything in North America, we had quite the number in the 40's, and not nearly as many today.

Were China to convert an optimal number of factories, they could create a war machine like never seen before. Frankly I think they can outproduce us.

The world has already acknowledge that the US doesn't have the power it used to. The only thing preventing China from becoming the next global superpower, is China.

They do have a history of self-immolating civil wars and revolutions, and there is no doubt that they are facing ENORMOUS internal challenges - especially feeding a vast population when you're paving over prime agricultural land and facing water shortages. But if they can avoid a revolution and solve their internal problems, there is NOTHING standing in there way of at least 100 years of global hegemony.

As a small side note: look out for India. Not as a nation, but as a people. They have more honour roll children then we have CHILDREN.

I'm just grateful Oriental culture values blue eyed blonds

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by acp5762

All of your assumptions are now antequated. All world Governments including ours is in financial ruin. When buisnesses consoldate or merge its done to preserve assets and to continue to do buisness. The future of World Governments may have to play out the same scenario. Thats why you hear talk of " New World Order" Socialism things like that.

Those are some big words and some profound comments...but if there is conclusion of some sort being proferred?...its over my head.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

The Chinese economy would tank big time without us. We may be too big to fail.

Like they say, if you owe the bank $10,000, they have you by the balls. But if you owe them $10M, you've got them by the balls.

[Rudyard K]

I disagree there will be a war...and frankly I don't think we will tell them to "stick it"...but I also don't know what their options are other than to keep buying our debt...and hope like hell we get our house in order to pay them back.

There has been billions...maybe trillions...of $$ we have given to others...with no expectation today of ever getting it back. Why not a little goose and gander action?

[Camille]

China hasn't got the quality offered by the Western World right yet. Being able to make something is one thing, being able to make something of quality whilst retaining such low costs is another altogether.
I have worked for 3 International manufacturing companies (1 UK, 2 US) and we lost a huge amount of business to China over the last decade. The most recent company I worked for has seen a re-emergence of US based manufacturing due to quality issues in China. Consumers are telling retailers that cheaper is not always better. At last count, the most recent manufacturing company I worked for saw a 35% return to the US due to quality issues with another 25% seriously considering the same move. Those are big numbers in a short space of time. The US are not going to fight their customers on such issues because it means they have a damn good reason to bring it home! China will get there in the end, but just like in the Western World, they won't get quality issues right over night.

C x

[EJunkie]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

The Chinese economy would tank big time without us. We may be too big to fail.

True, the Chinese economy would tank. The wild card is that Chinese governments over time have shown that they are willing to pay huge social costs to accomplish their goal of the moment; and I'm not sure anyone could predict what the goal would be if the US defaulted.

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

The world has already acknowledge that the US doesn't have the power it used to. The only thing preventing China from becoming the next global superpower, is China.

And India...and Japan...and Europe...and Russia...and of course, the US.

The world knows we are too nice for our own good...cause we think of ourselves as benevolent...so they don't worry as much about our being the superpower. I don't think anyone has that same perception of China.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

The Chinese economy would tank big time without us. We may be too big to fail.

Exactly....they need to build a middle class before they would not have any use for the US.

As long as oil is the major source of energy and the dollar is what it is traded in this country will be just fine.

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

And wars are usually won by those that can out-produce, and keep sending out soldiers.

.

That was the way of fighting wars last century . China will not be invading us and we will not be invading them there might be small proxy wars but nobody will ever get into a full blown war with this country. A simple reading of the link below will dispell any notion that China can do anything militarily to us. Counting factories is like the Indians counting arrows.....yea that had more but really that was not the question.

http://cero11.cise.ufl.edu/~webmaster/Learning_Modules/MIL/content/MIL_Comparison.html


The U.S. military currently spends 45.7% of the world´s military budget while China only accounts for 4.3%

[Whirlaway]

Folks...china is already conducting war against us...they are deep into our economy; stealing technology to use against us......

The "free trade" pacts with China are our un-doing......destroying our manufactuiring, middle class, and dollar. Why do you think it isn't called "fair trade"?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Folks...china is already conducting war against us...they are deep into our economy; stealing technology to use against us......

The "free trade" pacts with China are our un-doing......destroying our manufactuiring, middle class, and dollar. Why do you think it isn't called "fair trade"?

Until they build up a middle class having a bunch of manufacturing with no one to sell it to does them no good. So they need us. It is a simple fact. Why do you think their government started spending like crazy when the world demand slowed? We buy their goods....they buy our debt som we can turn around and buy more of their goods......

[Whirlaway]

Huh?????????

WTF, the Chinese are building a middle class......GM car sales in china exceeds those of the US (for example)....http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GMs-Ch....html?x=0&.v=2

Originally Posted by WTF

Until they build up a middle class having a bunch of manufacturing with no one to sell it to does them no good. So they need us. It is a simple fact. Why do you think their government started spending like crazy when the world demand slowed? We buy their goods....they buy our debt som we can turn around and buy more of their goods......