At The Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan Told 24 Myths In 40 Minutes

[Sensia]

Read here for the article.

[JD Barleycorn]

Sensia, I 'm sure you are a wonderful person but stop with cut and paste that you don't understand. I'm sure you love the title and you want to believe but it does not advance any argument and you look a little foolish. Maybe if you read the above article and encapsulated some of the arguments in your own words it would be interesting.

Just look at your source and you can see the problem.

[I B Hankering]

Whirly posted this the other day. It seems it's needed here again.


According to the Associated Press.

Anyone who paid attention to a hearing in Congress this week knew that the administration had been implored to beef up security at the U.S. Consulate in Libya before the deadly terrorist attack there. But in the vice presidential debate Thursday night, Joe Biden seemed unaware.

"We weren't told they wanted more security there," the vice president asserted flatly. During a night in which Biden and Republican rival Paul Ryan both drifted from the facts on a range of domestic and foreign issues, that was a standout.

A look at some of their claims:

BIDEN: "Well, we weren't told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security again. And by the way, at the time we were told exactly _ we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment. And as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it clear they changed their view."

RYAN: "There were requests for more security."

THE FACTS: Ryan is right, judging by testimony from Obama administration officials at the hearing a day earlier.

Charlene R. Lamb, a deputy assistant secretary for diplomatic security, told lawmakers she refused requests for more security in Benghazi, saying the department wanted to train Libyans to protect the consulate. "Yes, sir, I said personally I would not support it," she said.

Eric Nordstrom, who was the top security official in Libya earlier this year, testified he was criticized for seeking more security. He said conversations he had with people in Washington led him to believe that it was "abundantly clear we were not going to get resources until the aftermath of an incident. How thin does the ice have to get before someone falls through?"

He said his exasperation reached a point where he told a colleague that "for me the Taliban is on the inside of the building."
___

RYAN: "Look at just the $90 billion in stimulus the vice president was in charge of overseeing _ this $90 billion in green pork to campaign contributors and special interest groups."

THE FACTS: Dismissing an entire package of energy stimulus grants and loans as "green pork" ignores the help that was given to people to make their homes more energy efficient, grants to public entities constructing high speed rail lines and tax credits to manufacturers to install equipment fostering cleaner energy.

To be sure, there were notable failed investments, such as $528 million to the politically connected and now-bankrupt solar power company Solyndra. But Ryan's claim made it sound like every penny went down the drain.

More broadly, economists are nearly universal in saying Obama's $800 billion-plus stimulus passed in early 2009 helped create both public-sector and private-sector jobs, even if they fell short of what sponsors had hoped. Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, estimated the stimulus saved or created more than 3 million jobs.
___

BIDEN: "We went out and rescued General Motors."

THE FACTS: Actually, the auto bailout of General Motors and Chrysler began under President George W. Bush. The Obama administration continued and expanded it.
___

RYAN: "And then they put this new Obamacare board in charge of cutting Medicare each and every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors. This board, by the way, it's 15 people, the president's supposed to appoint them next year. And not one of them even has to have medical training."

THE FACTS: Ryan is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, created under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law. It has the power to force cuts in Medicare payments to service providers if costs rise above certain levels and Congress fails to act. But it doesn't look like the board will be cutting Medicare "each and every year," as Ryan asserts. Medicare costs are currently rising modestly and the government's own experts project the board's intervention will not be needed until 2018 and 2019 at the earliest _ after Obama leaves office if re-elected to a second term.
___

BIDEN, when asked who would pay more taxes in Obama's second term: "People making a million dollars or more."

THE FACTS: Obama's proposed tax increase reaches farther down the income ladder than millionaires. He wants to roll back Bush-era tax cuts for individuals making over $200,000 and couples making more than $250,000.
___

RYAN: "We cannot allow Iran to gain a nuclear weapons capability. Now, let's take a look at where we've gone _ come from. When Barack Obama was elected, they had enough fissile material _ nuclear material _ to make one bomb. Now they have enough for five. They're racing toward a nuclear weapon. They're four years closer toward a nuclear weapons capability."

THE FACTS: Ryan's claim is misleading. Iran isn't believed to have produced any of the highly enriched uranium needed to produce even one nuclear weapon, let alone five. That point isn't even disputed by Israel, whose Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implored the world at the United Nations last month to create a "red line" at enrichment above 20 percent. Iran would have to enrich uranium at much higher levels to produce a weapon. There is intelligence suggesting that Iran has worked on weapon designs, but not that it has developed a delivery system for any potential nuclear warhead.
___

BIDEN: "What we did is, we saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to Medicare."

THE FACTS: Contrary to Biden's assertion, not all the money cut from Medicare is going back into the program in some other way. The administration is cutting $716 billion over 10 years in Medicare payments to providers and using some of the money to improve benefits under the program. But most of the money is being used to expand health care coverage outside of Medicare.
___

RYAN: "What troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. Look at what they're doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals."

THE FACTS: The requirement under the health care law that most employers cover birth control free of charge to female employees does not apply to churches, houses of worship, or other institutions directly involved in propagating a religious faith. It does apply to church-affiliated institutions such as hospitals and charities that serve the general public.
___

BIDEN: "Romney said `No, let Detroit go bankrupt.'"

THE FACTS: GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney has gotten endless grief through the campaign for the headline put on his November 2008 opinion essay that he wrote for The New York Times. But his point was never that he wanted the auto industry to go down the tubes.

Romney opposed using government money to bail out Chrysler and General Motors, instead favoring privately financed bankruptcy restructuring. His prescription seemed improbable. Automakers were hemorrhaging cash and the banking system was in crisis, so private money wasn't available. Without the government money, it's likely both companies would have gone out of business. Romney did propose government-guaranteed private loans for both companies after bankruptcy.
___

RYAN: "We should have spoken out right away when the green revolution was up and starting, when the mullahs in Iran were attacking their people. We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer when he was turning his Russian-provided guns on his own people.

THE FACTS: Neither President Barack Obama nor anyone else in his administration ever considered the Syrian leader a "reformer." The oft-repeated charge stems from an interview Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton gave in March 2011 noting that "many of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said they believe he's a reformer." She did not endorse that view. The comment was widely perceived to be a knock at senators such as John Kerry of Massachusetts who maintained cordial relations with Assad in the months leading up to his crackdown on protesters.
___

RYAN: "This one tax would actually tax about 53 percent of small-business income."

BIDEN: "Ninety-seven percent of the small businesses in America pay less _ make less than $250,000."

THE FACTS: Both are correct, but incomplete, when sizing up the effect on small business of raising taxes for individuals making more than $200,000 and married couples making more than $250,000, as Obama wants to do. Republicans say that would hit small-business owners who report business income on their individual income tax; Democrats say the overwhelming majority of small businesses would not be affected.

According to a 2010 report by the Joint Committee on Taxation, the official scorekeeper for Congress, about 3 percent of people who report business income would face a tax increase under Obama's plan. That support's Biden's point.

The same report says those business owners account for about half of all business income. That supports Ryan.
___

RYAN: Notes that there have been four rounds of U.N. sanctions on Iran to deter its nuclear program, three during the Bush administration and one under Obama. "And the only reason we got it is because Russia watered it down and prevented the sanctions from hitting the central bank. Mitt Romney proposed these sanctions in 2007. In Congress, I've been fighting for these sanctions since 2009. The administration was blocking us every step of the way." He also noted the administration has granted 20 waivers to the sanctions.

THE FACTS: The argument that the administration was watering down or delaying sanctions is misleading. For sanctions to work, they need maximum global agreement and cooperation. Russia watered down U.N. sanctions not only under Obama, but also under Bush. And it's highly unlikely that a Romney administration, particularly led by a candidate who says Russia is the biggest geostrategic threat to the U.S., would be able to get Russia completely on board with what the U.S. wants to _ either in Iran or Syria.

The more absolute U.S. sanctions that Ryan and others have pushed in Congress would have punished U.S. allies, including most countries in Europe as well as Japan and South Korea, along with good friends like India and Singapore _ without the exemptions that were put in place.

The administration has indeed granted 20 waivers, to countries that made significant reductions in Iranian oil imports. And the sanctions are pinching; Iran has been convulsed over the past week with protests over the collapse of its currency, which most people say is a direct result of the sanctions that the U.S. and others have imposed.
___

Associated Press writers Bradley Klapper, Tom Raum, Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar, Stephen Ohlemacher, Tom Krisher and Matthew Lee contributed to this report.

And this item:

The Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] Pub.L. 107-243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing military action against Iraq.

United States Senate
Party . . . . . . .Ayes . .Nays . .No Vote
Republican . . . .48 . . . . .1 . . . . .0
Democratic. . . .29 . . . .21. . . . . .0
Independent . . .0 . . . . . 1 . . . . .0
TOTALS . . . . . 77 . . . . 23 . . . . .0

21 (42%) of 50 Democratic senators voted against the resolution: Sens. Akaka (D-HI), Bingaman (D-NM), Boxer (D-CA), Byrd (D-WV), Conrad (D-ND), Corzine (D-NJ), Dayton (D-MN), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Graham (D-FL), Inouye (D-HI), Kennedy (D-MA), Leahy (D-VT), Levin (D-MI), Mikulski (D-MD), Murray (D-WA), Reed (D-RI), Sarbanes (D-MD), Stabenow (D-MI), Wellstone (D-MN), and Wyden (D-OR).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

H.J.RES.114
Latest Title: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002
Sponsor: Rep Hastert, J. Dennis [IL-14] (introduced 10/2/2002) Cosponsors (136)
Related Bills: H.RES.574, H.J.RES.110, S.J.RES.45, S.J.RES.46

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION.—The President is authorized to use the
Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary
and appropriate in order to—

(1) defend the national security of the United States against
the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq

.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...jres114enr.pdf


Biden (D-DE), Yea
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00237

H.J.RES.114
Latest Title: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002
Sponsor: Rep Hastert, J. Dennis [IL-14] (introduced 10/2/2002) Cosponsors (136)
Related Bills: H.RES.574, H.J.RES.110, S.J.RES.45, S.J.RES.46
Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 107-243
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...7:H.J.RES.114:


SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION.—The President is authorized to use the
Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary
and appropriate in order to—

(1) defend the national security of the United States against
the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...jres114enr.pdf

Biden voted for the resolution and lied when he claimed he voted against the resolution.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Sensia, I 'm sure you are a wonderful person but stop with cut and paste that you don't understand. I'm sure you love the title and you want to believe but it does not advance any argument and you look a little foolish. Maybe if you read the above article and encapsulated some of the arguments in your own words it would be interesting.

Just look at your source and you can see the problem.

JD so quote an Independent source that backs up all of your claims- would it have been more accurate if Fox news reported the sources?

[Little Stevie]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Sensia, I 'm sure you are a wonderful person but stop with cut and paste that you don't understand. I'm sure you love the title and you want to believe but it does not advance any argument and you look a little foolish. Maybe if you read the above article and encapsulated some of the arguments in your own words it would be interesting.

Just look at your source and you can see the problem.

What a condescending tone, Barleybrains! You have HALF or LESS the intelligence of Sensia and you prove it every day with your inane blathering. You spell like a fourth grader, reason like a lunatic and choose "sources" that publish lies. Then you go spread your stupid crap to kids while disguised as some sort of teacher.

Whirly's "answers" to the Ryan lies were right off a right wing site COPIED and PASTED as you so foolishly and stupidly scolded Sensia for doing.

If you are going to complain about someone copying and pasting, then don't LAUD the use of copied and pasted reply material as you and others so pompously did when Whirly posted it.

When I look at the Sandbox before logging in, unfortunately I see I.B.'s posts. It is then when I rush to log in so I'm not bothered by his tripe.

I must noted, however, that I.B. COPIED and PASTED Whirly's COPIED and PASTED reply in replying to Sensia.

Teapublicans are such buffoons!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Little Stevie

When I look at the Sandbox before logging in, unfortunately I see I.B.'s posts. It is then when I rush to log in so I'm not bothered by his tripe.

I must noted, however, that I.B. COPIED and PASTED Whirly's COPIED and PASTED reply in replying to Sensia.

Teapublicans are such buffoons!

Once again you are liar, Little Blind Boy. This part of the post from above contains facts garnered from original research documenting Biden's lie. Your Kool Aid stupor is causing you to dribble all over yourself, Little Blind Boy.


The Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] Pub.L. 107-243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing military action against Iraq.

United States Senate
Party . . . . . . .Ayes . .Nays . .No Vote
Republican . . . .48 . . . . .1 . . . . .0
Democratic. . . .29 . . . .21. . . . . .0
Independent . . .0 . . . . . 1 . . . . .0
TOTALS . . . . . 77 . . . . 23 . . . . .0

21 (42%) of 50 Democratic senators voted against the resolution: Sens. Akaka (D-HI), Bingaman (D-NM), Boxer (D-CA), Byrd (D-WV), Conrad (D-ND), Corzine (D-NJ), Dayton (D-MN), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Graham (D-FL), Inouye (D-HI), Kennedy (D-MA), Leahy (D-VT), Levin (D-MI), Mikulski (D-MD), Murray (D-WA), Reed (D-RI), Sarbanes (D-MD), Stabenow (D-MI), Wellstone (D-MN), and Wyden (D-OR).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

H.J.RES.114
Latest Title: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002
Sponsor: Rep Hastert, J. Dennis [IL-14] (introduced 10/2/2002) Cosponsors (136)
Related Bills: H.RES.574, H.J.RES.110, S.J.RES.45, S.J.RES.46

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION.—The President is authorized to use the
Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary
and appropriate in order to—

(1) defend the national security of the United States against
the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq

.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...jres114enr.pdf


Biden (D-DE), Yea
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00237

H.J.RES.114
Latest Title: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002
Sponsor: Rep Hastert, J. Dennis [IL-14] (introduced 10/2/2002) Cosponsors (136)
Related Bills: H.RES.574, H.J.RES.110, S.J.RES.45, S.J.RES.46
Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 107-243
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...7:H.J.RES.114:


SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION.—The President is authorized to use the
Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary
and appropriate in order to—

(1) defend the national security of the United States against
the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...jres114enr.pdf


Biden voted for the resolution and lied when he claimed he voted against the resolution.

[Yssup Rider]

How about addressing the lies, fables and myths put forth by Little Boy Blue eyes?

You are spinning other people's spin.

You know what that makes you?

Altogether now ...

A DIPSHIT!

[JD Barleycorn]

Fox news is not the source of everything posted here. If it was, Fox news is the highest rated news channel on cable. Fox news has sources from other services. Fox news was started to have an profitable alternative to the mainstream media whereas xxx was created to only attack conservatives and advance the progressive agenda. As for WE, what claims did I make on this thread? Stop drinking when you're going to post. I wonder if you even read the story that Sensia posted...I guess not.

Oh Stevia, I can spell your ass off and you are vary aware of it. So go cut and paste something.

[Munchmasterman]

Talk about non-reading motherfuckers.

How many more times are you going to post this?

Keep up the good work.

Douche bags.


Whirly posted this the other day. It seems it's needed here again.
Yes, thanks for re-posting it. Since this is a thread about Ryan’s statements, those are the ones I will address.

According to the Associated Press.

Anyone who paid attention to a hearing in Congress this week knew that the administration had been implored to beef up security at the U.S. Consulate in Libya before the deadly terrorist attack there. But in the vice presidential debate Thursday night, Joe Biden seemed unaware.

"We weren't told they wanted more security there," the vice president asserted flatly. During a night in which Biden and Republican rival Paul Ryan both drifted from the facts on a range of domestic and foreign issues, that was a standout.

A look at some of their claims:

BIDEN: "Well, we weren't told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security again. And by the way, at the time we were told exactly _ we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment. And as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it clear they changed their view."

RYAN: "There were requests for more security."

THE FACTS: Ryan is right, judging by testimony from Obama administration officials at the hearing a day earlier.

Charlene R. Lamb, a deputy assistant secretary for diplomatic security, told lawmakers she refused requests for more security in Benghazi, saying the department wanted to train Libyans to protect the consulate. "Yes, sir, I said personally I would not support it," she said.

Eric Nordstrom, who was the top security official in Libya earlier this year, testified he was criticized for seeking more security. He said conversations he had with people in Washington led him to believe that it was "abundantly clear we were not going to get resources until the aftermath of an incident. How thin does the ice have to get before someone falls through?"

He said his exasperation reached a point where he told a colleague that "for me the Taliban is on the inside of the building."
___

RYAN: "Look at just the $90 billion in stimulus the vice president was in charge of overseeing _ this $90 billion in green pork to campaign contributors and special interest groups."

THE FACTS: Dismissing an entire package of energy stimulus grants and loans as "green pork" ignores the help that was given to people to make their homes more energy efficient, grants to public entities constructing high speed rail lines and tax credits to manufacturers to install equipment fostering cleaner energy.

To be sure, there were notable failed investments, such as $528 million to the politically connected and now-bankrupt solar power company Solyndra. But Ryan's claim made it sound like every penny went down the drain.

More broadly, economists are nearly universal in saying Obama's $800 billion-plus stimulus passed in early 2009 helped create both public-sector and private-sector jobs, even if they fell short of what sponsors had hoped. Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, estimated the stimulus saved or created more than 3 million jobs.

Ryan misrepresented the facts. He is wrong by default.


___

BIDEN: "We went out and rescued General Motors."

THE FACTS: Actually, the auto bailout of General Motors and Chrysler began under President George W. Bush. The Obama administration continued and expanded it.
___

RYAN: "And then they put this new Obamacare board in charge of cutting Medicare each and every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors. This board, by the way, it's 15 people, the president's supposed to appoint them next year. And not one of them even has to have medical training."

THE FACTS: Ryan is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, created under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law. It has the power to force cuts in Medicare payments to service providers if costs rise above certain levels and Congress fails to act. But it doesn't look like the board will be cutting Medicare "each and every year," as Ryan asserts. Medicare costs are currently rising modestly and the government's own experts project the board's intervention will not be needed until 2018 and 2019 at the earliest _ after Obama leaves office if re-elected to a second term.

Ryan is wrong.___

BIDEN, when asked who would pay more taxes in Obama's second term: "People making a million dollars or more."

THE FACTS: Obama's proposed tax increase reaches farther down the income ladder than millionaires. He wants to roll back Bush-era tax cuts for individuals making over $200,000 and couples making more than $250,000.
___

RYAN: "We cannot allow Iran to gain a nuclear weapons capability. Now, let's take a look at where we've gone _ come from. When Barack Obama was elected, they had enough fissile material _ nuclear material _ to make one bomb. Now they have enough for five. They're racing toward a nuclear weapon. They're four years closer toward a nuclear weapons capability."

THE FACTS: Ryan's claim is misleading. Iran isn't believed to have produced any of the highly enriched uranium needed to produce even one nuclear weapon, let alone five. That point isn't even disputed by Israel, whose Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implored the world at the United Nations last month to create a "red line" at enrichment above 20 percent. Iran would have to enrich uranium at much higher levels to produce a weapon. There is intelligence suggesting that Iran has worked on weapon designs, but not that it has developed a delivery system for any potential nuclear warhead.
Ryan misrepresented the facts. He is wrong.
___

BIDEN: "What we did is, we saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to Medicare."

THE FACTS: Contrary to Biden's assertion, not all the money cut from Medicare is going back into the program in some other way. The administration is cutting $716 billion over 10 years in Medicare payments to providers and using some of the money to improve benefits under the program. But most of the money is being used to expand health care coverage outside of Medicare.
___

RYAN: "What troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. Look at what they're doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals."

THE FACTS: The requirement under the health care law that most employers cover birth control free of charge to female employees does not apply to churches, houses of worship, or other institutions directly involved in propagating a religious faith. It does apply to church-affiliated institutions such as hospitals and charities that serve the general public.
Ryan is wrong except about charities and hospitals.
___

BIDEN: "Romney said `No, let Detroit go bankrupt.'"

THE FACTS: GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney has gotten endless grief through the campaign for the headline put on his November 2008 opinion essay that he wrote for The New York Times. But his point was never that he wanted the auto industry to go down the tubes.

Romney opposed using government money to bail out Chrysler and General Motors, instead favoring privately financed bankruptcy restructuring. His prescription seemed improbable. Automakers were hemorrhaging cash and the banking system was in crisis, so private money wasn't available. Without the government money, it's likely both companies would have gone out of business. Romney did propose government-guaranteed private loans for both companies after bankruptcy.
___

RYAN: "We should have spoken out right away when the green revolution was up and starting, when the mullahs in Iran were attacking their people. We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer when he was turning his Russian-provided guns on his own people.

THE FACTS: Neither President Barack Obama nor anyone else in his administration ever considered the Syrian leader a "reformer." The oft-repeated charge stems from an interview Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton gave in March 2011 noting that "many of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said they believe he's a reformer." She did not endorse that view. The comment was widely perceived to be a knock at senators such as John Kerry of Massachusetts who maintained cordial relations with Assad in the months leading up to his crackdown on protesters.
Ryan is wrong.___

RYAN: "This one tax would actually tax about 53 percent of small-business income."

BIDEN: "Ninety-seven percent of the small businesses in America pay less _ make less than $250,000."

THE FACTS: Both are correct, but incomplete, when sizing up the effect on small business of raising taxes for individuals making more than $200,000 and married couples making more than $250,000, as Obama wants to do. Republicans say that would hit small-business owners who report business income on their individual income tax; Democrats say the overwhelming majority of small businesses would not be affected.

According to a 2010 report by the Joint Committee on Taxation, the official scorekeeper for Congress, about 3 percent of people who report business income would face a tax increase under Obama's plan. That support's Biden's point.

The same report says those business owners account for about half of all business income. That supports Ryan.
___

RYAN: Notes that there have been four rounds of U.N. sanctions on Iran to deter its nuclear program, three during the Bush administration and one under Obama. "And the only reason we got it is because Russia watered it down and prevented the sanctions from hitting the central bank. Mitt Romney proposed these sanctions in 2007. In Congress, I've been fighting for these sanctions since 2009. The administration was blocking us every step of the way." He also noted the administration has granted 20 waivers to the sanctions.

THE FACTS: The argument that the administration was watering down or delaying sanctions is misleading. For sanctions to work, they need maximum global agreement and cooperation. Russia watered down U.N. sanctions not only under Obama, but also under Bush. And it's highly unlikely that a Romney administration, particularly led by a candidate who says Russia is the biggest geostrategic threat to the U.S., would be able to get Russia completely on board with what the U.S. wants to _ either in Iran or Syria.

The more absolute U.S. sanctions that Ryan and others have pushed in Congress would have punished U.S. allies, including most countries in Europe as well as Japan and South Korea, along with good friends like India and Singapore _ without the exemptions that were put in place.

The administration has indeed granted 20 waivers, to countries that made significant reductions in Iranian oil imports. And the sanctions are pinching; Iran has been convulsed over the past week with protests over the collapse of its currency, which most people say is a direct result of the sanctions that the U.S. and others have imposed.
Ryan misrepresented the facts again. Wrong again.


So when are you going to post this again, U B NAMBLA?

PS Hey! JD! Asshole!

Don't you think you owe the lady an apology?

[I B Hankering]

This AP post -- written by professional journalists -- looks better without the munchkin's editorial comments.


According to the Associated Press.

Anyone who paid attention to a hearing in Congress this week knew that the administration had been implored to beef up security at the U.S. Consulate in Libya before the deadly terrorist attack there. But in the vice presidential debate Thursday night, Joe Biden seemed unaware.

"We weren't told they wanted more security there," the vice president asserted flatly. During a night in which Biden and Republican rival Paul Ryan both drifted from the facts on a range of domestic and foreign issues, that was a standout.

A look at some of their claims:

BIDEN: "Well, we weren't told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security again. And by the way, at the time we were told exactly _ we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment. And as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it clear they changed their view."

RYAN: "There were requests for more security."

THE FACTS: Ryan is right, judging by testimony from Obama administration officials at the hearing a day earlier.

Charlene R. Lamb, a deputy assistant secretary for diplomatic security, told lawmakers she refused requests for more security in Benghazi, saying the department wanted to train Libyans to protect the consulate. "Yes, sir, I said personally I would not support it," she said.

Eric Nordstrom, who was the top security official in Libya earlier this year, testified he was criticized for seeking more security. He said conversations he had with people in Washington led him to believe that it was "abundantly clear we were not going to get resources until the aftermath of an incident. How thin does the ice have to get before someone falls through?"

He said his exasperation reached a point where he told a colleague that "for me the Taliban is on the inside of the building."
___

RYAN: "Look at just the $90 billion in stimulus the vice president was in charge of overseeing _ this $90 billion in green pork to campaign contributors and special interest groups."

THE FACTS: Dismissing an entire package of energy stimulus grants and loans as "green pork" ignores the help that was given to people to make their homes more energy efficient, grants to public entities constructing high speed rail lines and tax credits to manufacturers to install equipment fostering cleaner energy.

To be sure, there were notable failed investments, such as $528 million to the politically connected and now-bankrupt solar power company Solyndra. But Ryan's claim made it sound like every penny went down the drain.

More broadly, economists are nearly universal in saying Obama's $800 billion-plus stimulus passed in early 2009 helped create both public-sector and private-sector jobs, even if they fell short of what sponsors had hoped. Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, estimated the stimulus saved or created more than 3 million jobs.
___

BIDEN: "We went out and rescued General Motors."

THE FACTS: Actually, the auto bailout of General Motors and Chrysler began under President George W. Bush. The Obama administration continued and expanded it.
___

RYAN: "And then they put this new Obamacare board in charge of cutting Medicare each and every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors. This board, by the way, it's 15 people, the president's supposed to appoint them next year. And not one of them even has to have medical training."

THE FACTS: Ryan is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, created under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law. It has the power to force cuts in Medicare payments to service providers if costs rise above certain levels and Congress fails to act. But it doesn't look like the board will be cutting Medicare "each and every year," as Ryan asserts. Medicare costs are currently rising modestly and the government's own experts project the board's intervention will not be needed until 2018 and 2019 at the earliest _ after Obama leaves office if re-elected to a second term.
___

BIDEN, when asked who would pay more taxes in Obama's second term: "People making a million dollars or more."

THE FACTS: Obama's proposed tax increase reaches farther down the income ladder than millionaires. He wants to roll back Bush-era tax cuts for individuals making over $200,000 and couples making more than $250,000.
___

RYAN: "We cannot allow Iran to gain a nuclear weapons capability. Now, let's take a look at where we've gone _ come from. When Barack Obama was elected, they had enough fissile material _ nuclear material _ to make one bomb. Now they have enough for five. They're racing toward a nuclear weapon. They're four years closer toward a nuclear weapons capability."

THE FACTS: Ryan's claim is misleading. Iran isn't believed to have produced any of the highly enriched uranium needed to produce even one nuclear weapon, let alone five. That point isn't even disputed by Israel, whose Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implored the world at the United Nations last month to create a "red line" at enrichment above 20 percent. Iran would have to enrich uranium at much higher levels to produce a weapon. There is intelligence suggesting that Iran has worked on weapon designs, but not that it has developed a delivery system for any potential nuclear warhead.
___

BIDEN: "What we did is, we saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to Medicare."

THE FACTS: Contrary to Biden's assertion, not all the money cut from Medicare is going back into the program in some other way. The administration is cutting $716 billion over 10 years in Medicare payments to providers and using some of the money to improve benefits under the program. But most of the money is being used to expand health care coverage outside of Medicare.
___

RYAN: "What troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. Look at what they're doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals."

THE FACTS: The requirement under the health care law that most employers cover birth control free of charge to female employees does not apply to churches, houses of worship, or other institutions directly involved in propagating a religious faith. It does apply to church-affiliated institutions such as hospitals and charities that serve the general public.
___

BIDEN: "Romney said `No, let Detroit go bankrupt.'"

THE FACTS: GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney has gotten endless grief through the campaign for the headline put on his November 2008 opinion essay that he wrote for The New York Times. But his point was never that he wanted the auto industry to go down the tubes.

Romney opposed using government money to bail out Chrysler and General Motors, instead favoring privately financed bankruptcy restructuring. His prescription seemed improbable. Automakers were hemorrhaging cash and the banking system was in crisis, so private money wasn't available. Without the government money, it's likely both companies would have gone out of business. Romney did propose government-guaranteed private loans for both companies after bankruptcy.
___

RYAN: "We should have spoken out right away when the green revolution was up and starting, when the mullahs in Iran were attacking their people. We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer when he was turning his Russian-provided guns on his own people.

THE FACTS: Neither President Barack Obama nor anyone else in his administration ever considered the Syrian leader a "reformer." The oft-repeated charge stems from an interview Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton gave in March 2011 noting that "many of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said they believe he's a reformer." She did not endorse that view. The comment was widely perceived to be a knock at senators such as John Kerry of Massachusetts who maintained cordial relations with Assad in the months leading up to his crackdown on protesters.
___

RYAN: "This one tax would actually tax about 53 percent of small-business income."

BIDEN: "Ninety-seven percent of the small businesses in America pay less _ make less than $250,000."

THE FACTS: Both are correct, but incomplete, when sizing up the effect on small business of raising taxes for individuals making more than $200,000 and married couples making more than $250,000, as Obama wants to do. Republicans say that would hit small-business owners who report business income on their individual income tax; Democrats say the overwhelming majority of small businesses would not be affected.

According to a 2010 report by the Joint Committee on Taxation, the official scorekeeper for Congress, about 3 percent of people who report business income would face a tax increase under Obama's plan. That support's Biden's point.

The same report says those business owners account for about half of all business income. That supports Ryan.
___

RYAN: Notes that there have been four rounds of U.N. sanctions on Iran to deter its nuclear program, three during the Bush administration and one under Obama. "And the only reason we got it is because Russia watered it down and prevented the sanctions from hitting the central bank. Mitt Romney proposed these sanctions in 2007. In Congress, I've been fighting for these sanctions since 2009. The administration was blocking us every step of the way." He also noted the administration has granted 20 waivers to the sanctions.

THE FACTS: The argument that the administration was watering down or delaying sanctions is misleading. For sanctions to work, they need maximum global agreement and cooperation. Russia watered down U.N. sanctions not only under Obama, but also under Bush. And it's highly unlikely that a Romney administration, particularly led by a candidate who says Russia is the biggest geostrategic threat to the U.S., would be able to get Russia completely on board with what the U.S. wants to _ either in Iran or Syria.

The more absolute U.S. sanctions that Ryan and others have pushed in Congress would have punished U.S. allies, including most countries in Europe as well as Japan and South Korea, along with good friends like India and Singapore _ without the exemptions that were put in place.

The administration has indeed granted 20 waivers, to countries that made significant reductions in Iranian oil imports. And the sanctions are pinching; Iran has been convulsed over the past week with protests over the collapse of its currency, which most people say is a direct result of the sanctions that the U.S. and others have imposed.
___

Associated Press writers Bradley Klapper, Tom Raum, Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar, Stephen Ohlemacher, Tom Krisher and Matthew Lee contributed to this report.

[I B Hankering]

Regarding Libya:

Biden and Ryan started the debate on the topic of Libya, specifically, the terror attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi that killed Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans. We now know that this attack was perpetrated by terrorists.

Ryan accused the Obama administration of not properly protecting the ambassador.

“What we should not be doing is rejecting claims for calls for more security in our barracks we need marines in Benghazi when the commander on the ground says we need more forces for security there were requests for extra security, those requests were not honored,” Ryan said.

Biden called the deaths a tragedy, but he then claimed that the Obama administration did not know that the ambassador and other personnel on the ground had been more asking for more security.

“We weren't told they wanted more security,” Biden said. “We did not know they wanted more security men and, by the way, at the time, we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew, that was the assessment."

But the State Department did know that requests for more security resources had been made and were turned down. A State Department official acknowledged that testifying Wednesday on Capitol Hill.

Regarding spending:

Biden accused Ryan of being a big government spender.

Ryan voted for the Bush tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the expansion of Medicare to cover prescription drugs -- all of which Biden says added to the deficit.

“And, by the way, they talk about this Great Recession if it fell out of the sky, like, ‘Oh, my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion-dollar tax cut for the very wealthy. I was there. I voted against them. I said, no, we can't afford that.”

But looking at Biden’s own Senate votes, he voted for an early version of that Medicare prescription drug coverage. But later, Biden did not support the final Medicare drug benefit that President George W. Bush signed into law.

And the vice president was incorrect when he suggested tonight that he did not support the two wars because the country could "not afford" them. Biden voted for both wars.
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...al-debate?lite



The Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] Pub.L. 107-243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing military action against Iraq.

United States Senate
Party . . . . . . .Ayes . .Nays . .No Vote
Republican . . . .48 . . . . .1 . . . . .0
Democratic. . . .29 . . . .21. . . . . .0
Independent . . .0 . . . . . 1 . . . . .0
TOTALS . . . . . 77 . . . . 23 . . . . .0

21 (42%) of 50 Democratic senators voted against the resolution: Sens. Akaka (D-HI), Bingaman (D-NM), Boxer (D-CA), Byrd (D-WV), Conrad (D-ND), Corzine (D-NJ), Dayton (D-MN), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Graham (D-FL), Inouye (D-HI), Kennedy (D-MA), Leahy (D-VT), Levin (D-MI), Mikulski (D-MD), Murray (D-WA), Reed (D-RI), Sarbanes (D-MD), Stabenow (D-MI), Wellstone (D-MN), and Wyden (D-OR).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

H.J.RES.114
Latest Title: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002
Sponsor: Rep Hastert, J. Dennis [IL-14] (introduced 10/2/2002) Cosponsors (136)
Related Bills: H.RES.574, H.J.RES.110, S.J.RES.45, S.J.RES.46

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION.—The President is authorized to use the
Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary
and appropriate in order to—

(1) defend the national security of the United States against
the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq

.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...jres114enr.pdf


Biden (D-DE), Yea
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00237

H.J.RES.114
Latest Title: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002
Sponsor: Rep Hastert, J. Dennis [IL-14] (introduced 10/2/2002) Cosponsors (136)
Related Bills: H.RES.574, H.J.RES.110, S.J.RES.45, S.J.RES.46
Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 107-243
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...7:H.J.RES.114:


SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION.—The President is authorized to use the
Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary
and appropriate in order to—

(1) defend the national security of the United States against
the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...jres114enr.pdf


Biden voted for the resolution and lied when he claimed he voted against the resolution.

[theaustinescorts]

1. They both lied.
2. No White House can prevent or protect an embassy attacked by determined aggressors.
3. Biden is an intemperant blusterbus
4. Ryan is an immature little boy

[Yssup Rider]

And DOTY is wasting bandwidth for a change.

[theaustinescorts]

I wouldn't mind going out into the back yard and throwing a football with Ryan, but I wouldn't want him to be President of the United States. He's just a kid.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

1. They both lied.
2. No White House can prevent or protect an embassy attacked by determined aggressors.
3. Biden is an intemperant blusterbus
4. Ryan is an immature little boy

You're wrong, TAE. A squad of Marines can protect an embassy against assaults of the Benghazi type, and they can make the attackers pay -- in blood -- for the attack. If you doubt that, you can interview the eighteen dead Vietcong that attacked the Saigon embassy. And the U.S. ambassador wasn't killed or captured: he was protected.

"Moments after the first shots were fired at the U.S. Embassy in Saigon on January 31, 1968, Marines assigned to Ambassador Ellsworth Bunker's personal security unit awakened Bunker and hustled him into his armored 1966 Plymouth Fury."