Cops shoots daughter as an intruder

[JD Barleycorn]

A Virginia deputy awokened in the night heard an intruder in his garage. In the darkness he fired and wounded his wayward daughter who had snuck out. She survived. What do we learn from this?

Some people always like to point out that policemen have special training and that is why it is okay for them to carry weapons in public. I would like to point out that despite their special training even policemen make mistakes. So I see no difference between a private person and a policemen carrying a concealed weapon as far as accidents.

I could even point out that FBI statistics give civilians the edge when it comes to NOT shooting the wrong person when introduced to criminal activities when someone has to ascertain who is the bad guy and who isn't.

http://www.wtop.com/159/3682709/Poli...er-crashed-car

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1357949

[JD Barleycorn]

Hazards of sleepy posting. He was awakened.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

What do we learn from this?

Don't sneak out and then back into the house, particularly a policeman's house.

A friend of mine years ago was shot by his wife, when he came home late drunk and she thought someone was trying to break into the house, because he was fumbling around and making so much noise in the dark it sounded like someone trying to break into the house. Fortunately, the first round hit him in the leg and he went down (and stayed down) so the other rounds went over him. He bought her the weapon and made sure she was trained.

Another guy I saw in intensive care with five rounds from a .357 from his wife, for the same reason. He was trying to get into a rear sliding glass door and he was not so "lucky" and died. He also got the weapon and his wife training.

Neither wife was charged or even detained. That was in flaming-liberal Austin, Texas, where a Grand Jury just indicted the Governor for threatening to veto legislation.

"We" know little about this particular cops "training." Texas has had high training standards for LE (higher than most States (some have almost none), and the basic training for entry level officers and re-qualification standards do NOT REQUIRE "low light" decision-making ("shoot or don't shoot") training and/or qualification.

My "guess" is Virginia doesn't either, even post-Columbine and 911.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Don't sneak out and then back into the house, particularly a policeman's house.

A friend of mine years ago was shot by his wife, when he came home late drunk and she thought someone was trying to break into the house, because he was fumbling around and making so much noise in the dark it sounded like someone trying to break into the house. Fortunately, the first round hit him in the leg and he went down (and stayed down) so the other rounds went over him. He bought her the weapon and made sure she was trained.

Another guy I saw in intensive care with five rounds from a .357 from his wife, for the same reason. He was trying to get into a rear sliding glass door and he was not so "lucky" and died. He also got the weapon and his wife training.

Neither wife was charged or even detained. That was in flaming-liberal Austin, Texas, where a Grand Jury just indicted the Governor for threatening to veto legislation.

"We" know little about this particular cops "training." Texas has had high training standards for LE (higher than most States (some have almost none), and the basic training for entry level officers and re-qualification standards do NOT REQUIRE "low light" decision-making ("shoot or don't shoot") training and/or qualification.

My "guess" is Virginia doesn't either, even post-Columbine and 911.

Not surprising, even in Austin. The "Castle Law" gives a Texas homeowner a GREAT deal of leeway in such shootings. I would agree that the shootings you mentioned would be labeled an unfortunate accident in probably every state.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Not surprising, even in Austin. The "Castle Law" gives a Texas homeowner a GREAT deal of leeway in such shootings. I would agree that the shootings you mentioned would be labeled an unfortunate accident in probably every state.

We've had this "discussion" before, but those two incidents occurred before there was any "Castle Law" (the phrase was unheard then) and before you decided to join us down here in Texas. It had nothing to do with "the law" other than a lack of intent to shoot an innocent person. Neither event was a "legal accident" ... border line negligence, but without the requisite intent to commit aggravated assault or homicide. (If you recall Senator Wentworth injected that phrase into Texas jurisprudence not long before he was defeated.)

The death was a tragedy, and I saw the wife suffering while her husband lay there inevitably going to die. The other was almost humorous. We were friends. And some jokes continued for awhile. The siding on the entry way had to be replaced. She emptied the magazine (which probably saved his life).

[JohnnyCap]

Not enough is made of the type of pansy ass faggot wuss dumb-ass piece of shit mother fucker idiot assfucking rotten ass cunt douche shitbag it takes to just fire at an unrecognizable figure in the garage. It's the fucking garage you goddamn pussy, more than one step of faggotry further removed from shooting through the door of a bathroom in fear. Fucking pansies should feel some more fear before they pull the trigger. Sissy pussy namby-pamby bitches like this cunt shouldn't be allowed to hold their own butter knife.

No good wuss ass momma loving cunt, though I have all the sympathy in the world for his poorly raised, imprisoned daughter, I see it would have been fitting had he killed her. Dumb ass faggot cunt wanted to shoot someone and were he wallowing in the sorrow of killing his own faggot born flesh and blood as he waited to get ass-raped in prison it would be absolute justice.

Whew, that felt gooooood. No disrespect to homo's, my multiple use of faggot in this post is in reference to sissy cunts lacking intestinal fortitude. Fucking pansy ass bitches, 'I was in fear for my life.'

[timpage]

What a tragedy.

1. All guns are always loaded. Always.

2. Never point the muzzle of the weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy.

3. Finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

4. Make certain of your target and watch your background.

Violation of rule 4.

Admiral, your right about this but not for the reasons you think. Most cops have little real training regarding gun safety or fighting tactics. And, neither do "civilians".....last time I qualified, I stood next to an old man had to be pushing 80 and watched him try to load rounds into the magazine of his Lorcin .380 backwards. Couldn't even load the weapon without assistance from the rangemaster. He passed and got his CHL. Now, that is a fucked up system.

On the other hand, shit like this happens all the time.....you're woken up in the middle of the night by sounds in your house. Your pulse jumps to 170, your BP skyrockets, you have an adrenaline dump that has got your hands shaking and gives you tunnel vision. And, you fuck up. It could happen to anybody and don't think it can't.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

We've had this "discussion" before, but those two incidents occurred before there was any "Castle Law" (the phrase was unheard then) and before you decided to join us down here in Texas. It had nothing to do with "the law" other than a lack of intent to shoot an innocent person. Neither event was a "legal accident" ... border line negligence, but without the requisite intent to commit aggravated assault or homicide. (If you recall Senator Wentworth injected that phrase into Texas jurisprudence not long before he was defeated.)

The death was a tragedy, and I saw the wife suffering while her husband lay there inevitably going to die. The other was almost humorous. We were friends. And some jokes continued for awhile. The siding on the entry way had to be replaced. She emptied the magazine (which probably saved his life).

I agree.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by timpage

What a tragedy.

1. All guns are always loaded. Always.

2. Never point the muzzle of the weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy.

3. Finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

4. Make certain of your target and watch your background.

Violation of rule 4.

Admiral, your right about this but not for the reasons you think. Most cops have little real training regarding gun safety or fighting tactics. And, neither do "civilians".....last time I qualified, I stood next to an old man had to be pushing 80 and watched him try to load rounds into the magazine of his Lorcin .380 backwards. Couldn't even load the weapon without assistance from the rangemaster. He passed and got his CHL. Now, that is a fucked up system.

On the other hand, shit like this happens all the time.....you're woken up in the middle of the night by sounds in your house. Your pulse jumps to 170, your BP skyrockets, you have an adrenaline dump that has got your hands shaking and gives you tunnel vision. And, you fuck up. It could happen to anybody and don't think it can't.

At least Texas requires some sort of qualification in order to get a CHL. As discussed before, at least a few states have no requirements at all in order for a citizen to carry a concealed handgun.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

At least Texas requires some sort of qualification in order to get a CHL.

Minimal at best, and should be enhanced with expanded requirements.

There are a couple (I know of only one) civilian firearms program in the Houston area offering effective training in the tactical approach to self-defense in varying conditions that would typically be experienced by the CHL possessor.

Unfortunately that is not the norm.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Minimal at best, and should be enhanced with expanded requirements.

There are a couple (I know of only one) civilian firearms program in the Houston area offering effective training in the tactical approach to self-defense in varying conditions that would typically be experienced by the CHL possessor.

Unfortunately that is not the norm.

Hey, I'm totally with you on this.

Question for you or anyone else. You are legally carrying a concealed handgun. Across the street you see a guy being held up at gunpoint. What does CHL training tell you to do?

[JD Barleycorn]

Depends on the state. Some places require that you, the CCW holder, have to be in danger of your life being lost. Others require that some elses life be in danger. Others sometimes just required that you or others property be in danger. In the above scenario you could just drive or walk away, walk across the street to intervene (unarmed at first), or you could just grab that rifle from your car and shoot the criminal (and then drive away).

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Depends on the state.

Texas has factually the same standard for self-defense as defense of another person.

Texas Penal Code:
Sec. 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:

(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and

(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person."




As for the CHL "training" ... that will differ from one instructor to another. And frankly, I really don't care what a CHL instructor might tell me to do.

And, FYI, in Texas I don't have to have a CHL to have a firearm in my possession.

What the CHL training doesn't provide is the "proper" decision in every scenario. So actually Speeds hypothetical is skimpy on factual details to provide sufficient information to make a proper assessment on the response appropriate to the situation.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

And, FYI, in Texas I don't have to have a CHL to have a firearm in my possession.

What the CHL training doesn't provide is the "proper" decision in every scenario. So actually Speeds hypothetical is skimpy on factual details to provide sufficient information to make a proper assessment on the response appropriate to the situation.

I'm confused by that first statement. Are you saying that a person does not need a CHL to carry a concealed handgun in Texas? Or are you saying he can have a handgun in his possession as long as it is not concealed?

Agree, my scenario was not complete. But I think your response covered it. Obviously a CHL class which includes firing of the weapon and the basics of how to do so safely can't cover ever possible scenario in a few short hours of classroom instruction.

[roaringfork]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCap

Not enough is made of the type of pansy ass faggot wuss dumb-ass piece of shit mother fucker idiot assfucking rotten ass cunt douche shitbag it takes to just fire at an unrecognizable figure in the garage. It's the fucking garage you goddamn pussy, more than one step of faggotry further removed from shooting through the door of a bathroom in fear. Fucking pansies should feel some more fear before they pull the trigger. Sissy pussy namby-pamby bitches like this cunt shouldn't be allowed to hold their own butter knife.

No good wuss ass momma loving cunt, though I have all the sympathy in the world for his poorly raised, imprisoned daughter, I see it would have been fitting had he killed her. Dumb ass faggot cunt wanted to shoot someone and were he wallowing in the sorrow of killing his own faggot born flesh and blood as he waited to get ass-raped in prison it would be absolute justice.

Whew, that felt gooooood. No disrespect to homo's, my multiple use of faggot in this post is in reference to sissy cunts lacking intestinal fortitude. Fucking pansy ass bitches, 'I was in fear for my life.'

"So why don't we just blast whoeva's in the car?"

Surely you don't mean to call Sonny Corleone a faggot.

I guess I've had it all wrong: my first consideration in purchasing a weapon for home defense would be the projectiles' ability to penetrate at least a couple of inches of wood, as in "You better open this door right now, mothafucka!"

But as I've noted before, most guys in this hobby don't seem to live in quite the type of neighborhood that I've sometimes lived in.