Values not guns are the problem

[JD Barleycorn]

It is easy for the left to cry crocodile tears about the deaths of certain people. The more victim like the better for their agenda. Children being killed is a tragedy but the same number of people gunned down in Chicago over a weekend is a mere statistic. Guns are being blamed but I think it is a loss of values. Look at cinema and compare it to what we know from history. Movies capture a piece of the moment beyond the plot line. Today criminals kill with startling regularity but in the 1930s such actions would have earned the perp the moniker of "mad dog killer". (see High Sierra) Once that is put on you your days are numbered. If a civilian kills you there will be very little investigation and the police will not hesitate to shoot first. Look at what happened to Bonnie and Clyde, John Dillinger, Ma Barker and her boys. The police didn't read them their rights. They killed them at the first sign of resistance with massive fire power. Today we have gangbangers bragging about their kills and we have children in the classrooms looking up to them. Praying, religion, and values were taken from the children. Values like the respect for life and the absolutism of death. Even in the 1950s death from gang fights was rare. (see the Asphalt Jungle) It was acceptable to kick someones ass but killing them was not part of the plan. Tell that to the idiot who drives by a home, playground, or sidewalk and fires 10, 20, or 30 rounds into a crowd. They just don't care anymore.

There is no simple answer. Putting values back into the classroom and the perverts out (something else that was not tolerated in earlier years) will take 30 or 40 years. You're going to have to train as children the men and women will be the teachers that get the job done.

Trying take guns will not work. We will not give them up quietly. The left has tried through intimidation and guilt to complete the agenda of a disarmed society. They can not or will not use reason. They lose when that happens. When they have succeeded in a new law they become emboldened and try to go further. The left has destroyed any credibility they may have once had with lies. Take Chicago, Washington DC, and New York City. The gun control advocates started with wanting remove machine guns from the hands of criminals in the 1920s and 30s. This become handguns as well and not just criminals but everyone. In the 1960s it became rifles and shotguns until no guns were allowed in these cities. Did crime drop? No, the crime got worse and so did the violence. Things are starting to reverse. Armed civilians are bringing violent crime down but the justice system is laggning behind. Two 14 year old boys and a 13 year old girl gunned down a 22 year old mother because she told them to get jobs rather than give them cigarettes. Will they see the death penalty which they richly deserve (yes, all three of them)? Not very likely. The death penalty should be applied more often and quicker. Given who is reading this, this is NOT an endorsement of willy nilly applications but there are many times when there absolutely no doubt who the trigger puller was. I mentioned child molesters earlier, your sexual proclivities do not change. If you like children before a 10 stretch you will like children afterwards as well. I will throw that to you, what should be done with convicted child molesters?

[UB9IB6]

I can't disagree less. I will expound on one point ......
Parents. Not enough Incentive for parents to raise their kids properly.
If parents were to face any and all charges/potential punishment for the actions of their offspring, we'd have more supervision, more attention paid to derelict children and a whole lot of public ass whoopins'. Today's kids walk around with a sense of entitlement that just
Didn't exist when I was growing up.
Anyone here ever get disciplined by a friends' parent as a child?
Could you imagine the uproar from your typical suburban parent if you so much as
Suggested better behavior for their hellions ?

I am all for punching a smart ass 15 -20 year old right in his/ her disrespectful mouth if it opens crooked. Fortunately, I've never HAD to issue corporal punishment on my little ones.
Hope I never feel the need either . That's mean ol moms' job.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by UB9IB6

If parents were to face any and all charges/potential punishment for the actions of their offspring, we'd have more supervision, more attention paid to derelict children and a whole lot of public ass whoopins'.

Yea, while the kids are in foster care on the taxpayes' tit, while their parents ...

... are serving their time on the taxpayers' tit.

A mother buy's 2 AR-15s to keep around the house for personal protection in anticipation of the economic downturn, along with several other semi-auto weapons with copious amounts of ammunition, and you expert her to be "responsible" enough to "regulate" her child's behavior? She's dead now and so is one of her children..... along with a lot of others' family members.

[Whirlaway]

A broken home life. Loner who played computer games (probably hardcore violent).
On medication. Mother let him have access to guns.

What's wrong with this picture.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

What's wrong with this picture.

..that she was allowed to teach children.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

A broken home life. Loner who played computer games (probably hardcore violent).
On medication. Mother let him have access to guns.

What's wrong with this picture.

sounds like it fits most of the posters on this board.LOL

[Fast Gunn]

You want to make the victim responsible for the tragedy?

. . . Good parents can have bad children.

Originally Posted by LexusLover

..that she was allowed to teach children.

[Whirlaway]

Good parents don't let mentally challenged children have access to gun ?

Good parents don't let mentally challenged children slip into the dark waters with Goth, violent gaming and such?

Good parents don' let their kids become mass murders?

How many of these mass murders come from broken single parent homes ?

[UB9IB6]

I truly believe that parents are solely responsible for the jewels and trash they produce .

Good kids can fuck up..... But rarely are fuckups good kids.
A child is a DIRECT reflection of the nurture they receive.

Parental responsibility is way underrated. Imo

[Fast Gunn]

Well, you're welcome to "truly believe" whatever you want to, but in reality that does not confer any credibility whatsoever to what you believe.

I have seen children from the same family receive the same treatment from the same parents and yet turn out to be totally opposite from each other. How can that be?

. . . Parents can guide children in the early years, but then people create themselves and their lives by their own choices. Good or bad.

Originally Posted by UB9IB6

I truly believe that parents are solely responsible for the jewels and trash they produce .

Good kids can fuck up..... But rarely are fuckups good kids.
A child is a DIRECT reflection of the nurture they receive.

Parental responsibility is way underrated. Imo

[WTF]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

A mother buy's 2 AR-15s to keep around the house for personal protection in anticipation of the economic downturn, along with several other semi-auto weapons with copious amounts of ammunition, and you expert her to be "responsible" enough to "regulate" her child's behavior? She's dead now and so is one of her children..... along with a lot of others' family members.

Is this what this woman did who was shot in Conn?

Sounds like LovingKayla!

I would not be suprised if her and JD are not plotting some government overthrow as I type. They are our Tim McViegh's of eccie.

[Randy4Candy]

Enforcement is the key, as I said in the other thread about the most recent killings of children. We have at least plenty of laws, and I know some say too many. Fair enough, BUT since our rugged individualist, Teawipe brethern and sistah, and the rest of the complacent, greedy folks out there insist on it, we have government on the cheap, by the cheap and for the cheap. We refuse to do what is necessary to make it harder for these things to happen. We'll never completely eradicate human-on-human violence but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't seriously try. But, we are arrogant and delusional enough as a society to think that we can police the world, build other countries into the shape of our own, all the while neglecting our own country.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by UB9IB6

I truly believe that parents are solely responsible for the jewels and trash they produce .

Good kids can fuck up..... But rarely are fuckups good kids.
A child is a DIRECT reflection of the nurture they receive.

Parental responsibility is way underrated. Imo

That's certainly true in most cases, but there are exceptions. If you look at the siblings of some recent high profile murderers, you'll see that their brothers and sisters raised by the same parents are very often model citizens.

[joe bloe]

The culture rot that is currently contributing to the decline of America and western civilization has been eating away at the foundation of our society for decades. Alexis de Tocqueville said that America is great because America is good. He wrote that in 1834. That was the observation of a Frenchman trying to define what was different about America, what was the essential trait that made us special. I believe he was right. No country can be truly great without being fundamentally decent. Tocqueville's observation was accurate for the early nineteenth century. I don't think he would make the same observation today.

America has ceased to be great because we have ceased to be good. The fabric of our society is being torn apart by moral decay. If America does somehow return to it's former greatness, it's not going to happen any time soon.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

America has ceased to be great because we have ceased to be good. The fabric of our society is being torn apart by moral decay. If America does somehow return to it's former greatness, it's not going to happen any time soon.

Joe the Bloehard will never be great because he has never even been remotely close to mediocre. The fabric of his inner soul has been torn apart by moral decay. If the Bloehard does somehow become good at some point, it will not happen any time soon.