Crazy Repuke stuff...no. 5

[timpage]

It's un-American for all Americans to have access to health care. Only Americans who have money should have access to health care, the rest of the Americans, who don't have money....should not have access to health care. Because they are stupid, or lazy...and their infants and children are stupid and lazy too...and none of them should have access to healthcare. This is the stupid Repuke position and we are sticking to it!

[CuteOldGuy]

Not necessarily.

It is easy to forget that for decades the United States HAD a health care system that was the envy of the world. We had the finest doctors and hospitals, patients received high-quality, affordable medical care, and thousands of privately funded charities provided health services for the poor. I worked in an emergency room where nobody was turned away for lack of funds. People had insurance policies for serious health problems but paid cash for routine doctor visits.

--Ron Paul. The Revolution: A Manifesto

[essence]

That isn't health care.

What about the cases where something is not an emergency, but if not treated it will get worse, until one day it does become an emergency and life expectancy is poor?

[trynagetlaid]

We still have the best health care in the world. It's just that not everyone can afford it any more.

1) Pharmaceutical companies charge way too much for drugs and make obscene profits. Just look at what the generics cost.

2) Doctors pay ridiculous amounts for malpractice insurance. Too many fucking lawyers trying to win frivolous large settlements for clients. That $5 million settlement you read about in the newspaper this morning? Guess who has to pay for that.

3) Advances in equipment and methods. They don't give those MRI or Ultrasound machines away. And you need trained operators. A lot of these high-tech systems weren't available in the time frame Ron Paul was referring to.

4) Too many Americans lead sedentary lives. We're too fat, we eat too much of the wrong foods, and we don't exercise enough. And too many people still smoke even though they tax a pack of cigarettes over $5 in some places. Diabetes, heart disease, cancer are rampant because we don't take care of the body God gave us.

That's just a short list. There are many more factors that contribute to the higher costs.

We have all this great technology and health care - the real moral issue is, how do we make it available and affordable to the majority of Americans?

Romney (and later Obama) tried to develop a workable system. It's not perfect, and never will be. But to do nothing would have been immoral.

[i'va biggen]

years ago,because we are a capitalistic society it was determined health care would be a money making enterprise,so why are we still having this discussion? If you can't afford it you shouldn't have it.

[essence]

Originally Posted by trynagetlaid

We still have the best health care in the world.

What is your evidence for that? The WHO reports I reported don't seem to agree. I think they place US at number 30-40 in the world.

[essence]

Originally Posted by ekim008

years ago,because we are a capitalistic society it was determined health care would be a money making enterprise,so why are we still having this discussion? If you can't afford it you shouldn't have it.

I'm assuming that the strong sarcasm behind your statement was lost in translation. If not, thank you for letting us know what you really believe.

[trynagetlaid]

Originally Posted by essence

What is your evidence for that? The WHO reports I reported don't seem to agree. I think they place US at number 30-40 in the world.

I'd love to read the report if you would repost the link. I'm sure it dwells on availability and implementation. I can't imagine another country having better health care available than we do, but I can easily imagine better implementation of same.

Is there a specific treatment of some rare disease or condition that Americans have to leave the country to obtain?

That would be very useful information for all of us to have.

[CuteOldGuy]

If it weren't for the profit motive in medicine, we would not have the advances we have seen over the years. Why do people invent new procedures, treatments and drugs? To make money. It's as simple as that.

[trynagetlaid]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

If it weren't for the profit motive in medicine, we would not have the advances we have seen over the years. Why do people invent new procedures, treatments and drugs? To make money. It's as simple as that.

It's not that simple. I (and many others, hopefully you included) donate millions of dollars to medical research every year. Dedicated scientists and researchers work tirelessly in labs all over the country trying to find better treatments and cures. Their motive is not strictly personal gain; indeed most of them, even though they are Ph.D.'s, earn about as much per hour as a high school football coach. Let's give their efforts a little recognition, and not lump them in with the pharmaceutical companies, hospital conglomerates, and health insurance companies whose greed for obscene profits and huge executive bonuses swells the cost of health care to an amount which most of us can't afford.

[Guest123018-4]

Nobody in this country has ever been refused healthcare.
This is a part of the probnlem that the democrats want to fix..
They now want to decide who gets healthcare and how they can get it.

Obamacare has never been about making sure that everyone has access to healthcare, it has always been about control.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by trynagetlaid

It's not that simple. I (and many others, hopefully you included) donate millions of dollars to medical research every year. Dedicated scientists and researchers work tirelessly in labs all over the country trying to find better treatments and cures. Their motive is not strictly personal gain; indeed most of them, even though they are Ph.D.'s, earn about as much per hour as a high school football coach. Let's give their efforts a little recognition, and not lump them in with the pharmaceutical companies, hospital conglomerates, and health insurance companies whose greed for obscene profits and huge executive bonuses swells the cost of health care to an amount which most of us can't afford.

Wow, what planet are you from? I haven't heard of one single medical breakthrough or drug in the past 30 years that was free, or didn't come from a corporation that profited from it.

[trynagetlaid]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

Wow, what planet are you from? I haven't heard of one single medical breakthrough or drug in the past 30 years that was free, or didn't come from a corporation that profited from it.

Obviously you've been brainwashed by the big pharmaceutical companies who justify charging $3 for a pill that costs 3 cents to produce, because they need the money to fund new research. A lot of new research is funded by charitable contributions to small independent labs, because the ideas don't meet the risk/reward criteria of the greedy pharmaceutical companies. But since they control production and distribution, they take credit for all new advancements.

Earth.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by trynagetlaid

Obviously you've been brainwashed by the big pharmaceutical companies who justify charging $3 for a pill that costs 3 cents to produce, because they need the money to fund new research. A lot of new research is funded by charitable contributions to small independent labs, because the ideas don't meet the risk/reward criteria of the greedy pharmaceutical companies. But since they control production and distribution, they take credit for all new advancements.

Earth.

LOL, so you donate to small greedy researchers who then sell their findings to greedy, big pharmaceuticals companies. Smart, really smart. Don't you think if they weren't in it for the money they would give it to the public for free instead of selling it to the big corps? Btw, PM me if you got some extra cash, you can donate to my research company, we care about you.

[trynagetlaid]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

LOL, so you donate to small greedy researchers who then sell their findings to greedy, big pharmaceuticals companies. Smart, really smart. Don't you think if they weren't in it for the money they would give it to the public for free instead of selling it to the big corps? Btw, PM me if you got some extra cash, you can donate to my research company, we care about you.

Think I'll pass on that one bro. You'd probably just put the money in your own health care fund and I really don't want to pay for your private jet to fly you up to the Mayo Clinic the next time you get a hangnail.