Is it a massage or a rubdown? How to tell if it's the real deal

[Dharma]

The subject of having a massage forum was gone over a while back and for reasons stated to the owners, we had to shelve the idea. By massage I mean licensed provider either currently or recently so that the client is assured of getting a professional quality massage and not just a play rubdown. Not dissing the rubdown but there is a difference and most massage clients want the real thing. For those who don't want that, they can avoid the professional and go for the candy

My question is this. Since we don't have a separate forum, is there a code of some kind that we can place in our ads that can be searched for, to differentiate the service from a fun but nonprofessional rubdown?

I've already thought about all the search terms like licensed, trained, school and etc. What I'm thinking of is a search term that only the professionals would use. Something like Professional Quality and the number of years you've worked as a therapist and the state you're licensed in. Maybe PQ-11-T. Or SHFR-04 (super happy fun rubdown 4 years) I'm just brainstorming here, it could be anything but you get the idea. I know there aren't many of us but not everyone knows who we are and this way clients could find what they're looking for, no matter what state/city they're in.

If a provider puts it in her ad, she has to have some reliable way to support her claim otherwise every provider will do it and we'll be right back where we started. Ideas?

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it's not a waste of time, I know you MODS are crazy busy babysitting lately.

Dharma

[LazurusLong]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Not dissing the rubdown but there is a difference and most massage clients want the real thing. For those who don't want that, they can avoid the professional and go for the candy

I beg to differ but this entire post is "dissing the rubdown" and as someone who began getting therapeutic massage almost 20 years ago, making such a broad statement that most clients want this loosely defined real thing insults us clients.

Do you have any facts to support that? I'm certain if you ask, most guys are going to say in front of their wives they would be horrified about any extras but get us out someplace and the term happy ending and massage go hand in hand. No pun intended!

As a matter of practice, if this were true, you'd be advertising in the Therapeutic portion of the Backpage instead of the Adult Bodyrub section. Look at the number of BodyRub ads compared to the therapeutic and you'll see that it appears "most clients" are looking for the happy ending and if the girl has massage skills or training, that is the bonus.

I have been part of several private massage groups. My first was in Houston nearly a decade ago and part of the "game" is finding a hot new therapist who after repeated visits because she is hot, relaxes that last tight muscle. Some get shared and some do not. Especially in boards where anyone can join and see "reviews".

If you have issues with non licensed girls having the term massage used in reviews, any potential solution you've suggested will only hang a target on your back for the police to focus on you like Plano cops are doing with all the massage and body rub girls. I was recently IN a massage location when the cops came in for a surprise inspection and cited them for not having a current license.

BTW, it is not illegal to get an unlicensed massage, only to give it.

This might be a much better discussion in the actual discussion forum where the clients who will be posting and not posting reviews can provide input, unlike the last time this was "discussed" only among a couple of gals without input from any guys according to that other thread.

[Dharma]

Here we go. A few weeks you were all for separating BR and RMT's now you post this. Is it just because I started this thread? Let me break this down for you.

Originally Posted by LazurusLong

I beg to differ but this entire post is "dissing the rubdown" and as someone who began getting therapeutic massage almost 20 years ago, making such a broad statement that most clients want this loosely defined real thing insults us clients.

The only insult is imagined by you and your experience getting a massage isn't relevant.

Do you have any facts to support that? I'm certain if you ask, most guys are going to say in front of their wives they would be horrified about any extras but get us out someplace and the term happy ending and massage go hand in hand. No pun intended!

The last time I checked there wasn't a study but I do listen to clients and the members of this board. They have said several times that they would like a way to tell the difference.

As a matter of practice, if this were true, you'd be advertising in the Therapeutic portion of the Backpage instead of the Adult Bodyrub section. Look at the number of BodyRub ads compared to the therapeutic and you'll see that it appears "most clients" are looking for the happy ending and if the girl has massage skills or training, that is the bonus.

What the hell are you talking about?

I have been part of several private massage groups. My first was in Houston nearly a decade ago and part of the "game" is finding a hot new therapist who after repeated visits because she is hot, relaxes that last tight muscle. Some get shared and some do not. Especially in boards where anyone can join and see "reviews".

Doesn't apply. Most people, personal preferences in style and personality, want to know whether or not their money is being well spent before they're on the table. And seriously, being "hot" is relative and it doesn't relax muscles. Come on, is that all you've got?

If you have issues with non licensed girls having the term massage used in reviews, any potential solution you've suggested will only hang a target on your back for the police to focus on you like Plano cops are doing with all the massage and body rub girls. I was recently IN a massage location when the cops came in for a surprise inspection and cited them for not having a current license.

I don't care what terms other girls use. Don't try to make me out to be something I'm not. The legality isn't the issue here either. You can get massages for as long as you like but stealing candy bars for 10 years doesn't make you a lawyer. One other thing, you didn't think enough of your brethren to post an alert and share that info?

BTW, it is not illegal to get an unlicensed massage, only to give it.

Again, not part of the question.

This might be a much better discussion in the actual discussion forum where the clients who will be posting and not posting reviews can provide input, unlike the last time this was "discussed" only among a couple of gals without input from any guys according to that other thread.

As for this cheap shot, this wasn't discussed amongst "a couple of gals". Everyone it affected directly was invited to participate and it was discussed at great length with the owners and other relevant people. Not you.

I know who you are and you haven't changed. When you have something constructive to add to this thread, I welcome your posts. Please, don't pot-stir in my threads. It detracts from a legitimate question. I am trying to find a way to accommodate the needs of members of this board.

[LazurusLong]

Not stirring the pot, expressing my opinion.

You claim I wanted to separate the Rub and tug from licensed? Really, I'd appreciate a link to that post because I surely don't recall EVER in all my years of being on this or any other board making even remotely like that as a suggestion.

You are completely ignoring the relevant folks who contribute reviews and actually pay for services by not asking them once again, that is my point. NOT pot stirring.

Sorry for your lack of comprehension about why I pointed out you post in the rub and tug section instead of therapeutic. IF your initial assumption were true, that most clients seek "the real thing", you'd refrain from posting in the rub and tug part of Backpage. Where a cursory glance shows much more ads and more traffic.

What I posted in this thread:
http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=56877
was that the site should not allow reviews of licensed massage therapists who only post ads in the Therapeutic Massage ads.

Might want to go read it again. Here, I'll copy it for you and please note the portion where I say no therapeutic AD only girls be reviewed.

Originally Posted by LazurusLong

...ONLY allow reviews of the girls posting ads in the Body Rub section or girls who advertise on here for such service. NO Therapeutic Massage ad girls at all. Period. WAY too public on this site.

I agree 100% with tigercat in his response to the previous thread from about a month ago.

Originally Posted by tigercat

Most LMT/RMT types would prefer that (1) we did not review them in any public forum and (2) that we not highlight their violations of law (at least as I understand the broad brush of Texas law) by creating a page where LE and the Health Department could find a list of violators.

In another thread somewhere I posted a link to a list of violators who had their licenses removed for various violations. The impression I got from the violations was that LE was using technical violations of requirements under the health code to force therapist out rather than make the prostitution charges.

Sort of like I do with workers who report to me. Always easier to fire someone for absenteeism rather than make the case for their incompetence.

I prefer that we protect this source of providers and NOT create a special forum.

It's been roughly what, 5 weeks since that previous thread was started and I'm guessing that since you've brought it up, you've wanted a second go around so soon?

Maybe if you'd finally ask the guys, like the guys who replied, instead of making snarky remarks like you did here about "knowing who I am", you'd have better results.

EDIT TO ADD. Go back and read it again.

Originally Posted by LazurusLong

..... any potential solution you've suggested will only hang a target on your back for the police to focus on you like Plano cops are doing with all the massage and body rub girls. I was recently IN a massage location when the cops came in for a surprise inspection and cited them for not having a current license.

[Dharma]

Pay attention, the question to the staff was asking if there was a way to designate the difference.

Do you read every one of my ads? If you're so interested in my ads then you'd know that that ad is the first I've posted in BR in months. But that's not relevant here. I comprehend your post. Just because there are more ads in one section as opposed to another is again irrelevant to the question I asked.

Now, find something relevant to say or don't post. I'm not going to cater to you. Go find attention someplace else.

[NerdKing]

Dharma, I think it is a good idea. I know what I'm looking for ... a "real" massage plus extras. There is nothing like a really good massage and if you have ever had one then you will know what I'm talking about. Looking at the Ads it is really hard to tell who offers a truly good massage. I have had to lurk the boards for quite awhile to know that LovingKayla, Dharma and VNurse are the real deal. There may be others, but like you said it is hard to tell from the ad copy alone.

-NerdKing

[Dharma]

Thank you for your clear and immediate understanding of my original post

[vnurse]

I hear from lots and lots of callers and clients that they would like to have a regular massage and not just a body rub.

If the State wanted, they could pop the non-licensed ladies for advertising massage but, of course, they could pop said ladies for MOST of what is advertised, right? THAT isn't the question at hand, at least not by my understanding.

It is a shame that the gentlemen have to weed through so many ads by searching massage providers only to be disappointed. I have no idea how to differentiate massage vs body rub.

Any "real massage" terms or lingo could and probably would be picked up on by non-licensed people so that isn't really an answer.

About the only thing that I can think of is perhaps having ladies list the word "license" in their ads when posting. Not necessarily "licensed massage" or other red flag terms but simply the word itself.

I don't know...do any of you gentlemen have any ideas? I mean, is there something that you feel you could search for when looking for a MASSAGE +?

This is an interesting topic...surely we can come up with something to make it easier for you guys! Hope so!

[guest043013-2]

The RMT or LMT designation is the best clue.

And I have to say, my experience is that a real massage therapist is top notch compared to a rub & tug provider.

Sure if I am looking for FS, then the massage capabilties of the provider are not an issue, and probably just a distraction, but for L1/L2, with some gentle foreplay via a massage, give a therapist.

[NerdKing]

I got it ... you just need to be certified as a great masseuse by the NerdKing.

Anyone buying this? <grin>

-NerdKing

[vnurse]

tigercat, you hit the nail on the head! The entire point is that sometimes you guys WANT a FS deal but sometimes you would prefer to have a relaxing, laid back session where you just want to be pampered with a massage.

Listing LMT or RMT is what we have tried to avoid because of where we are here on this board. Just being here and advertising is a violation and places us and our licenses in jeopardy. I realize that may not seem like a big deal to some but we had to pay lots and work hard to get our licenses and would REALLY like to keep them!

Back to the original question with a different spin: Is there a code word that we (as massage ladies) can use in our ads and or profiles and or reviews to signal you gentlemen that we DO offer massage? Something besides LMT or RMT?

The only things that come to my mind are things like using phrases like massage table, accredited, State regulated, things like that.

What do you all think?

Oh and NerdKing, I think that perhaps you COULD become our "official certifier"! What a great idea!

[Chica Chaser]

My trigger word when looking for a massage or a R&T is.....FBSM, Full Body Sensual Massage. I may be wrong but when those letters pop up in an ad I immediately think body rub with a tug finish only. Sometimes that is exactly what I'm looking for but other times a want a good "kick-my-ass and make me wobble out the door" massage. FBSM is the keyword for me at least.

[Dharma]

Well, it doesn't look like a standard is forthcoming any time soon. It was an idea though and I know there are key words we could use. Like I said, it's still a guessing game for the guys though.

I'll keep looking for an answer to the problem though and I'm open to any ideas even if you don't think they'll go anywhere. Poke it with a stick and see if it moves. Thank you for all your responses Keep it coming!

[vnurse]

Am I the only one here who thought FBSM meant "Full Body Swedish Massage"? Of course I don't NOW but that is what I used to think.

Also, unless I am mistaken, FBSM (with the 'S' meaning sensual) does NOT mean the person advertising it is licensed nor trained to give massage. They may be able to give a decent rub but that is STILL kind of misleading.

I think I am going to start listing the word 'license' in my ads. Well, when I post ads anyway. Maybe it wil help, who knows?

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Well, it doesn't look like a standard is forthcoming any time soon. It was an idea though and I know there are key words we could use. Like I said, it's still a guessing game for the guys though.

I'll keep looking for an answer to the problem though and I'm open to any ideas even if you don't think they'll go anywhere. Poke it with a stick and see if it moves. Thank you for all your responses Keep it coming!

I understand what your original intent is, but you are looking at only half of the issue.Let's assume that over 90% of your clients so far this year, shared their thoughts with you. In their conversations, they expressed their frustrations about not being able to discern who offers a real massage. Let's also assume that other ladies who are LMT/RMT hear as high a number of concerns as you did. In general, it could be said that it was close to a consensus that guys wanted to know where to get a real massage when the mood was right.


Armed with all that knowledge, you set up a committee whose only goal is to established new terms to be used to differentiate between body rubs and "real massages". So the illustrious committee comes up with five new terms for each section, so that Body rub girls can use five key words to advertise that are unique to them. The "real massage" girls also have five unique words that they can use. This committee has in essence turned into a regulatory board


So the new regulations board, issues their new guidelines and mandates that all body rubs / real massage girls start using them.


The problem: How do you enforce it? In government, when they regulate anything, they create the bureaucracy to enforce their laws, so that they can dictate to us how to live. The government obviously regulates LMTs/RMTs and yet we have a significant number of them deviating from the guidelines, risking losing their licenses and providing extras not only here but also BP and CL. So how effective is the bureaucracy at regulating activities? These guys earn full salaries to do one thing, enforce the regulations.

Compare the above scenario to ECCIE, a hobby board. If they were to create 10 new terms to be used at 5 terms a piece, how would you prevent one girl from using a term that belonged to the other group? Would members create threads/alerts announcing the transgression? How could the member doing the report provide the proof that the provider using the term was in direct violation of the new regulations? Would he have to research into her personal life to verify that she was not licensed, and therefore violate her privacy in real life? How would the staff arbitrate cases where there were accusations but not enough evidence was provided? Would the Staff, doing volunteer work, want to undertake this new task?


At the end of the day, people can come up with as few as a dozen new terms to as many as several thousand new phrases, if they can't enforce it, they are back to square one.


Again, the original intent is a good one, but given the nature of this board, it is an impractical thing to attempt to do. Guys who like "real massages" will have to find them the old fashioned way, doing research.