To Hobbyists with an SO...(or Providers with one)

[guest021411]

I've thought long and hard (pun intended!) before posing this question.
I'm sure it's been posed before and may even be a "tired" topic.
But since I've not seen one what the hell!.....

After a session with a provider, on your way home
do you ever deal with any guilt? If so how do you reconcile it?

And most importantly is there anything we (providers) can do to ease any
concerns that may contribute to any guilt or fear of being found out?

Same question for providers that have an SO who is unaware of their
provider status?

I may regret posting this but have seen many controversial subjects
presented here for discussion. Hope I haven't crossed into taboo
subjects!!

[guest041110]

Since I was married and participating in the biz, here is what I have to say about your questions Dragonfly. As I no longer have a SO, I can look back and see the mistakes I made while realizing that what I did was something that I am not proud of.

To your first question, yes, I did feel guilt for a variety of reasons and how I reconciled it was to compartmentalize my feelings while using projection of certain things onto my mate as the reasons why I was here. The problem with that is one can only do that for so long before it catches up to you and you find yourself facing that stranger with the knife that cuts you deep while laughing at your pain but hiding behind the masks we all keep. Fortunately, I had the reconciliation of my actions occur after I was divorced but, unfortunately, I had no one to talk to about those feelings when I dealt with them. Now while it matters in a historical context, it does not matter in the present outside of my knowing I will never again do what I did since it nearly killed me both spiritually and physically. I do know that when I find someone again who wants me and I want her, I will never again make the mistakes I did in the past and that includes being involved in this biz.

As far as anything any provider can do, in my opinion, the answer is a firm no since what could a provider possibly do except not see the guy? Moreover, how would a provider know to do anything in the first place? This is something each person has to deal with on their own as best as they can, if they deal with it at all. Most will just shrug and say "Huh?". While others will ignore it in hopes that their denial will keep them safe and yet others will deny there is an issue in the first by claiming that it is not personal but just business. Finally there will be others who will think that what I have written is a crock of it. Those that I just described are the ones that I think are truly lost since they have a seared conscious and refuse to take responsibility for their actions while hurting those that love them.

As far as crossing into “taboo” Dragonfly, this whole business is taboo. So while what you have written may upset some consider those that it upsets are in a state of denial to begin with. Besides, I am sure what I have written will upset some rather than think what I have written has merit in the P4P realm. Therefore I would not worry about that, or them, too terribly since I know I don't.

There are always consequences for ones actions and that includes cheating on your mate. While a great many in this realm think there is nothing wrong with cheating, or having an “open” relationship, there is a great deal wrong with it and that will never change.


Just my two cents worth...

[guest040711-1]

Yes, I realize I'm addicted to sex (rationalize)

[Guest050613-02]

I remember so distinctly the first time I ever paid a provider. I put aside $20 here & $30 there for several weeks so that there would not be an obvious large ATM withdrawl. I researched reviews, & planned, planned, planned. And I rationalized.

On that first visit I chose to only do L2 because anything more was sacred &--in my mind--reserved for my SO relationship. I did this for several years, only L2. Got a lot of strip club head as well. Until one day I just went all the way (covered of course).

I look back and know that I could never have had CFS on that first date; and now I cannot image NOT wanting it. Was L2 my gateway drug? Or was each provider like a tug on a band-aid: the first rip hurts like hell, the next a little less...until eventually you can remove the bandage at-will and with no feeling.

And rationalize I continue to do to this day. 2009's version has me believeing that I hobby because there are things I need but could not imaging saying or doing with the mother of my children. "Yea, lick my ass baby" is a phrase that will probably never be uttered in the CT household.

But to your question, "is there anything we (providers) can do to ease any concerns that may contribute to any guilt or fear of being found out?" Maybe put your incall closer to a quality flower shop or Neiman Marcus. I always seem to pick something up from one of these establishments on the way home.

[travelling_man]

I don't feel guilty at all. Society has caused the stigma associated with it being "wrong" and feeling guilt to have sex with anyone else once you are married outside of a relationship and only being with one person. It is human nature to WANT to have sex with as many people as possible because if that wasn't the case why would it be enjoyable and pleasurable? I see being with a provider as no more wrong that going to have a massage or getting a haircut. It is something that we enjoy, makes us feel good, helps to relieve stress and tension and by having less stress and tension it makes us more healthy overall. To me getting a haircut does the same thing - it makes me feel good because I know that I look better, etc, etc...but it's not wrong to get a haircut, is it?

I don't want to get on a moral or religious soapbox or start a discussion about that. The thread started asked if I felt guilty and the answer is no because I honestly don't think it's wrong or that I'm doing anything bad. There is a huge society of swingers that feel the same way. Sex is something pleasureable that two people do to feel good and society is the one that puts a stigma on it about being wrong if it is outside of a relationship. I wish that my SO was a swinger and I wouldn't have to worry about being discrete.

[Artie Lange]

If she was treating me at home as well as I treat her, This hobby would have been gone long ago.

[Guest100610-3]

I have never been married so i have not guilt at all about being in the hobby. When i was in a serious relationship I did not hobby at all, never even thought about it. I was with a provider in San Antonio a few years back and she had a SO and was very open about it. She said he could not or would not support the family so she did what she said she does best to take care of them. She said she had thought about divorcing him several times but that the kids loved him and she did not want to take that away from her kids. I am sure there are a lot of providers out there that are probably in the same boat.

[guest021411]

Lonesome Dove, thank you for your candor and honesty.
Those are the things I look for most in folks.

I have to ask though ...what if the provider really does care
and doesn't fall into any of the categories you mentioned? Would
there then be something she could do?

If providers had the title of Sex Therapist this would be a mute point.
It is considered acceptable for "sex outside the relationship" IF it is
with a sex "the-rapist" but unacceptable if the "therapist" doesn't have
the credentials behind their name. Well, credentials or not, it is still
"sex outside the relationship"!!!

Travelling Man, I happen to agree with you (hence my signature line).
We are NOT hardwired for monogamy...never were. So I don't consider
that a rationalization, just a statement of fact.

Even though not everyone is consciously aware, I believe that the majority
of us have issues of some kind that are being addressed in the hobby. Even
the satisfying of our polygamous nature can produce issues. I also believe
that being aware of this can make a difference in whether or not we are
successful in resolving them! All this, of course, is just my opinion.

I TRULY care about the emotional state of clients. Even suggested to a
client once that maybe they should reconsider hobbying because of the emotional strain it was causing them.They actually thanked me for clarifying the situation and the options before them. I still see them today but in a different type of session.

Maybe my perspective of the hobby is a bit strange, but for me, becoming physically intimate with someone creates a degree of responsibility for making my impact in their "real life" minimal.

[SASpurfan]

Thanks, Dragonfly. You always have a unique and thoughtful perspective.

SAS

[guest041110]

DragonFly, I understand where you are coming from but to answer your question of whether there is something a provider could do if she really did care, and did not fall into the categories I listed, I will stand by what I wrote the other day but reiterate that, no, there is nothing she will be able to do. What is being discussed requires action on an individual level and that requires an objective perspective from the one who has the guilt. Consequentially, any action has to come from the one that has the issue. As a matter of fact, a provider has a vested interest in a positive outcome that ensures her continued monetary stream from the client which precludes her being objective in every respect. An additional item is that her mere presence potentially will remind the client exactly why he is feeling the way he is, if he has any remorse at all.

As far as providers having the title of sex therapists go, no, this discussion would not be a moot point if provider's had that title since to engage a client in intimate relations when you are their professionally credentialed medical provider would be highly questionable, very much frowned upon by all in the medical community and quite possibly would lead to legal, both civil and criminal, charges being filed against the provider should she have a professional credential as a therapist. Frankly, it is my understanding that legitimate sex therapist’s do not engage their clients one on one in sexual activities themselves since to do so would remove their professional objectivity and make their opinions moot due to the conflict of interest and breach of protocols as well as the fact that they have stepped outside the bounds of being a medical professional and into the bounds of just being a “Pro” . I have heard that surrogates have been engaged by therapist to do what you suggest but the legitimately trained therapist would not have sex with their clients since they would then be involved in an intimate relationship with a client and that is definitely not accepted in the medical community.

As far as sexual relations being ”acceptable” when in a therapy session, i.e. sex outside of a relationship, I think you will find that most folks will not find that acceptable in any way since it is still cheating on your mate... well, outside of the P4P realm that is. Most therapists I know of will engage both partners for the one on one sex as a way of healing the rift that exists in their relationship as well as a method of having them grow closer to each other. I am not a therapist but I am a medically trained professional so I do know something about this but I have not looked into this area in a long time.

[Guest012510-4]

I don’t judge people who do as each of us have to find and make our own paths in life. We are all here.

I could not give two damn lamb shacks either about the stigma associated with it being “wrong” and feeling guilty about sex outside the relationship. I have never lived my life by the standards of others anyway-I am here right along with the rest of you.

However, if I was married and my SO believed it was a traditional marriage, I WOULD feel guilty. I would feel guilty because I would care about the personal feelings and beliefs of my spouse. If I didn’t I would hope that I would not have married him/her.

For this question I don't really think it is relevant if sex outside the marriage is wrong or right or the fact that we are not meant to be monogamous or how I personally feel about either of those two topics!

Isn’t the real question do we care about the feelings of those we love and who love us? If so and we know if they found out it would cause them pain would we feel bad about doing that to them? Isn’t that where the guilt comes from anyway? Having a feeling of responsibility to the people we love – not just the standards of everyone else in the world?

I am not married and I will not pass judgment on those who are and practice in this lifestyle. But, I am very aware that most of the people in my life would not and could not possible understand my ability to feel the way I feel. But, just because I think a certain way I don’t believe they are wrong for feeling the way they do and I respect their feelings because I deeply care about them.

Therefore, if I were married I know I would feel guilty.

The only way to do it without guilt for me would to be have a partner that was completely open to sex outside the relationship and was okay with accepting the possible repercussions and consequences associated with our lifestyle. (i am past the point in my life that I believe I could make a relationship like that work - but some do but i personally wouldn't want an open marriage)

[Shackleton]

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

If providers had the title of Sex Therapist this would be a mute point. It is considered acceptable for "sex outside the relationship" IF it is with a sex "the-rapist" but unacceptable if the "therapist" doesn't have the credentials behind their name. Well, credentials or not, it is still "sex outside the relationship"!!!

Dragonfly, I'm not sure about the married women in your circle, but I can assure you that for every married woman I've ever known would, it most certainly would not be a moot point if their husband was having sex with a "sex therapist," credentialed or otherwise. Certainly not if being done secretly behind her back.

[Ashley Kensington]

I'm new here, although not new to the hobby nor its unique situations. So first off, Hi everyone!

As to the matter at hand, the part of the topic posed that got my attention was about how does one rectify within oneself their participation in this demi-monde?

To me I feel like my true self is portrayed most clearly when I am in this world. I truly love what I do and what I do for others. Don't get me wrong, I love civie life too, however I find when I can be with people who love, respect and accept my decisions and support my lifestyle choices - I am the happiest.

I made a promise to myself to not get close to anyone with whom I could not be completely honest, close-friends, family, SO (you get the point). This was a difficult decision, but after I made this decision, a calm peace came over my whole life. The stresses about worrying if this person or that person found out were gone, and I was the one telling the people close to me about my lifestyle choice - rather than one of their co-workers, etc.

Now I know most people cannot say the same thing. I know not everyone could put themselves in my situation. I know I have been lonely at times, especially at the beginning, however I never felt as lonely or guilty as I did when I was keeping a secret.

I really do feel for the ladies and gents who have circumstances that don't allow them the same freedom I've given myself. I wish that the world were a different place (or the US and its Puritanical roots - don't get me started) that allowed for our little world to be less abhorrent to the majority. But hey, if that were the way it was - shooooot I might just be out of a job! LOL!

[shooter6.5]

I have seen you many times and there is nothing that you or any other lady should try to do here. When you get too involved in trying to help others then it just gets too personal. Hope this does not sound too harsh as that is not the way it is intended to be.

I, personally only see ladies more than once if I feel some type of personal connection. Could be any number of things. Personality--ability to totally relax--lack of drama. Actually very little of it has to do with BCD activities--although that does help!! I see one lady here who goes to lunch with me now and then and have a great time just visiting with her. Of course our BCD time is great also!!

To cut this short. I lost my guilt trip long ago. I do a lot more than here that could cause guilt--and it does not. When you start getting involved in trying to help then be prepared to get involved in the possible consequences. All the way from extra emotional events to stalkers--etc.

[Guest030911]

Ditto to what Shooter6.5 said...


and shooter, it's okay. I have known you have been cheating on me for a long time. I have been cheating on you, too!