Cellphone Surveillance

[CaptCroakers]

I saw this article today from the AP and thought it was interesting.

http://www.wbal.com/article/114482/2...mid-us-secrecy

[gigi_gypsy]

Damn, this is scary. Thanks for sharing.

[FoulRon]

I waiting for the FBI to get a huge smack down from a federal judge over this one day, hopefully soon. Perhaps after a certain high-profile case gets tossed because they won't talk about the device.

[Unique_Carpenter]

Old news actually, cases have been tossed for at least a couple years now.
Any transmitter, (cell phone, cell tower equip, microwave equip, whatever) have equipment ID codes as part of their transmissions. How else can the cell tower find your phone
So yes, once LEO knows the equipment code, tracking with portable equipment.
The concept has been around for decades and started way back with just trying to find any hidden transmitter. Nowadays it's to find a specific transmitter.
And yes probably a violation of the failure to get a search warrant thing.
But, if LEO already is watching you, you're sunk regardless.
I don't understand why the manufacturer wants to keep the equipment design a secret.
Unless they just want an exclusive to sell to LEO agencies.

[offshoredrilling]

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Old news actually, cases have been tossed for at least a couple years now.
Any transmitter, (cell phone, cell tower equip, microwave equip, whatever) have equipment ID codes as part of their transmissions. How else can the cell tower find your phone
So yes, once LEO knows the equipment code, tracking with portable equipment.
The concept has been around for decades and started way back with just trying to find any hidden transmitter. Nowadays it's to find a specific transmitter.
And yes probably a violation of the failure to get a search warrant thing.
But, if LEO already is watching you, you're sunk regardless.
I don't understand why the manufacturer wants to keep the equipment design a secret.
Unless they just want an exclusive to sell to LEO agencies.

maybe a old law everybody in US has the right to receive any transmission. But not the right to understand it unless its intent or ok for you to understand it.
TV, AM and FM radio, intent for you to understand
fire, LE its ok
US military you could be up shit creek if can understand it and they fine out
Old cells it was user beware others can pick it up and understand
New digital cells anyone can pick it up But ya better not be able to understand it unless you have a warrant.

[Unique_Carpenter]

Originally Posted by offshoredrilling

New digital cells anyone can pick it up But ya better not be able to understand it unless you have a warrant.

LEO can't track it without a warrent. Can't even pretend not tracking it, and it was just a coincidence either. A Florida case settled that. As for LEO listening without a warrent, that was settled decades ago.
Manufacturers are selling to LEO, cause mil has better stuff nowadays.

[offshoredrilling]

if you make a call to 911 they will track if they feel a need.

[Solitaire]

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

LEO can't track it without a warrent. Can't even pretend not tracking it, and it was just a coincidence either. A Florida case settled that. As for LEO listening without a warrent, that was settled decades ago.
Manufacturers are selling to LEO, cause mil has better stuff nowadays.

Ok, so someone gets busted... then, depending on what kind of trouble this person is in, the warrants are obtained for those numbers on the contact list, and your burner app number is on it. Then what?

ANY APP you download WILL be permanently attached to your real phone number of the cell phone that you downloaded it too. Google will make sure of that. So your "anonymous" burner app number will be connected to your real world phone number.

Don't believe me? Do a factory reset. Open up Google Play Store - ALL the apps you have ever downloaded are there, attached to your number, available for retrieval - you don't even have to log into your gmail account, it's attached to your number.

Once you've built up a persona and have reliable and established references, get a burner phone. Put it under a fake name. If you want to download a burner app on that just for an extra layer of security, go for it. But don't download one of those apps on your real-world phone and deceive yourself into thinking you are anonymous and safe. You won't be.

[plainjoe]

For the hobby, I use a cheap, disposable DUMB (not SMART) phone that I purchase with cash at Walmart and pay cash for the top off cards. Trac Fone, Virgin and other phones are available. After about a year, I toss it and get a new one. Keep the hobby life and real life separate as much as possible.
The Security section has a few discussions about the use of disposable phones.

[hobbyhard]

I'll mostly anti-government but have no issue with them doing so. Yes they should have a warrant. They aren't using it to bust john's looking to get their D's sucked (yet) and we do need a way to trace terrorists. That problem is only going to get worse.

[Unique_Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Solitaire

Ok, so someone gets busted... then, depending on what kind of trouble this person is in, the warrants are obtained for those numbers on the contact list, and your burner app number is on it. Then what? ...
...ANY APP you download WILL be permanently attached to your real phone number of the cell phone that you downloaded it too. Google will make sure of that. So your "anonymous" burner app number will be connected to your real world phone number.
But don't download one of those apps on your real-world phone and deceive yourself into thinking you are anonymous and safe. You won't be.

Solitaire is quite correct of what can happen.
And I thank her for expanding on my prior comment of: "if they're already watching you". A warrant is a warrant. US Federal Supreme Court Justice Roberts is frequently quoted, from one of the rulings, that a judge is as close as a handheld for those doughnut eaters qualified to actually have a judges cell phone #. He's making two points, First, to the doughnut eaters, its so easy to get a warrant nowadays, so if leo doesn't, count on whatever being thrown out. Second, there's always a judge on duty. Get the appropriate phone #, and when a warrant is needed, just do it, and the case is gold.

Last, I also agree with her on stuff in a smart phone. Even on my primary civilian handheld, there's very little. Frankly I'm more afraid of losing it somewhere. But still, ignoring hobby world, data on this type of equipment can be dangerous in a civilian world. Example, how many folks keep their banking data on their phone? Don't. Seriously, don't (repeat for emphasis). I have client's that are techies, and they amuse me with what they can do (they are paid to handle tech security) and Solitaire mentions a few examples.

[Wakeup]

[Zhivago52]

Hoibby phone, paid for with cash and no personal information exchanged.

If your regular cell phone is in your vehicle, remove battery as you drive to the appointment.

[Fancylady]

Scarey..Thanks for sharing.