Secret hobbyist/PUBLIC provider Legal issues

[MaxiMilyen]

There is a site that obviously took as much information on over 300 providers from several sites in order to create their own site, including pics, profile information and whatnot. The site is chauvinist hobby friendly and not so much provider friendly. I am remiss to post the site name as I don't want to give them the publicity and find them to be an aberration to the ladies in the Hobby world.

All my information was taken from here and other sites. I contacted them and they actually already had a profile set up for me as if I had done it myself. They gave me access when asked, but when I tried to edit any information, nothing changed, so I contacted to ask them questions about their site. This is what I got in response to my questions:

1.) I would specifically like to know where my information and
pictures were gleaned from. Is your site directly related to another
site I am on, or was my information and pictures taken from a specific
site or sites I currently use? I'm sure you can understand my concern
and my desire to know and try to keep up with what is posted and where
it's posted. I'd like to think I have at least a modicum of control
concerning matters such as these.
>> I don't know.



2.) Also, I'd like to know who owns the site. I may know them and
would like to thank them for saving me the trouble of having to do all
the initial work. Your staff/programmer might want to also include a
"Contact Us" link on the site, now that some of the other ladies are
discovering their profiles there and would probably like their
passwords as well. Just a suggestion.
>> If we were able to build such a site, then I think that we would have been able to put up a 'contact us' page as well. The point is that we don't want to be contacted at this time. Obviously, I can't tell you who the site owners are.



3.) Sorry to keep contacting you guys, but I am having some problems
with my profile and there are a lot of questions I can't find the
answer to on your site.
>> That is on purpose.



4.) I wanted to let you know that I tried to edit my info, change my
privacy settings, and remove some pics, and when I go into edit mode,
I see the changes, but when I look at the profile, the info I tried
to change remains the same and my profile remains VERY PUBLIC. I
would prefer it be members only at this time. How do I change my
profile pic?
>> Profile changes are usually reviewed by one of our staff members within 24 hours. If you try to upload wrong or misleading info or delete important information, then your changes will be dismissed.



5.) I am in the process of going somewhat UTR in taking face pics out
of all my ads, off my different profiles and whatnot. I just started
this process yesterday by creating my new site and beginning a name
change process and will start using my new site when everything is in
place.
>> I'm not sure if that will work. As you can see, info that has been posted on the Internet once is pretty much out there forever and it is pretty much impossible to delete it.



6.) I don't see a need to go any further with this if I can't have
some control or am not given some information on how to accomplish
what I'd like to with my profile. :-(
>> Ok, that is fine. I just disabled your account. If you want to access it again, please let me know and I will activate it. The point is that you should not use the site if you don't feel like participating.



7.) A lot of the ladies are kinda skiddish about what has happened
with their info being published without their knowledge and would like
the same info I am requesting. I'm happy to pass it on, if you could
advise.
>> I think you already did because I have received several emails that were sent directly to this address, so I assume you gave it to them. I would have appreciated it if you had not done that but I understand, so I won't hold a grudge against you.


8.) I don't want to seem ungrateful for the "help" and I'm also happy
to use the site, but really need to know I have at least some control
over what is published and how to go about making some changes to fit
my new image. HELP, please.
>> I'm sorry but our audience are hobbyists and we do everything we can to provide them with as much as information as possible, so I understand that this can create conflicts with those providers who are not interested in transparency or have other issues with it.


9.) Another concern some of the ladies have is how your ranking system
works. ( I'm flattered to be number 10, btw! Not sure I deserve that
ranking though...LOL) thanks!
>> That is obvioulsy a secret.



I responded and asked them to take my profile down, they responded "All Clear", however, my profile remains public. Some of the pics I tried to remove have been removed, but my profile from my Showcase here (from a couple of months ago) remains intact and VERY PUBLIC even though I changed the settings for Members only, obviously that was not approved by their staff, they want it to be public. I also had taken my telephone number out while editing as I no longer wish to publish it, but apparently they think it's better for me to publish it as they did not approve that change.

Now, there is a large group of ladies who might like to take legal action. If there are any lawyers who would like to confer with this group of ladies or myself, please PM me with your details. There are several of my own private issues I'd like to address, as well as, shared issues with the other ladies.

[Max Rax]

I'm here to add that I'm also on this site and extremely upset about this, they have combined my new and old info on this site clearly i did not not want this info together any way at all. I have emailed them with no reply, and would love to know if anything legal can be done....

[Guest100610-2]

I have never made a profile on this site. I have emailed them asking them to remove my pictures and information and they have not written me back or anything at this time. I am very upset as some of the pictures they posted about me are very old. I don't like the fact they took my information without my permisson.

What can we do about this? Do we have some type of legal rights here?

[MaxiMilyen]

Thanks for the support ladies, as you know, it is building some momentum, we are learning and things are "in the works" already! The actions taken by the site were wrong on so many levels, it's just pathetic! Even given the opportunity to compromise, they are too stubborn to work with us. Me thinks they need to re-think what they were thinking about when they thought up this clever scheme of theirs. LOL

[Guest071613-2]

This site has also stolen my pics as well as the bio from my p411 page.

This pisses me off to no end, and I want it taken down. I have asked them on numerous occasions to take down my profile, they refuse.

I just sent an email to the web host of the site. We'll see...

[ShysterJon]

I don't specialize in intellectual property law, but I do have some experience in the field. In my opinion, there is no legal way to force the web site from reporting the information. However, there may be a practical way to persuade the site to delete information about a particular provider.

The site at issue captures, collects, and reproduces public information available elsewhere on the internet. Such editorial use of information is permitted under federal copyright law and the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Although there may be no legal way to compel the site to delete information, a well-drafted cease-and-desist letter could convince the site to remove information about the attorney's client to avoid possible trouble. Providers may like screwing lawyers, but no one wants to screw with a lawyer.

[Guest071613-2]

What about if the pictures are copyrighted? The following was brought up elsewhere:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._Copyright_Act

[ShysterJon]

Originally Posted by Dannie

What about if the pictures are copyrighted? The following was brought up elsewhere:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._Copyright_Act

I assumed the images at issue are copyrighted. If images are not copyrighted, there's probably no protection at all from use, misuse, even sale. If images are copyrighted, they may fairly be used for editorial, non-commercial purposes. For example, if a web site uses a provider's copyrighted image to convey information about the provider to those who visit the site, and as long as the site is not selling the information, that would be a permissible use of the image.

[sky_wire]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

I assumed the images at issue are copyrighted. If images are not copyrighted, there's probably no protection at all from use, misuse, even sale. If images are copyrighted, they may fairly be used for editorial, non-commercial purposes. For example, if a web site uses a provider's copyrighted image to convey information about the provider to those who visit the site, and as long as the site is not selling the information, that would be a permissible use of the image.

Skip copyright law. Unauthorized use of a persons name or likeness has been recognized in tort law for over 100 years. Unfortunately, the so called legal rule is merely a preamble to a catalog of exceptions. You can always sue someone. Will you win? It depends.

[ck1942]

While I don't know the name of the site in question, I do know of more than 2 dozen (at last count) similar sites that harvest from all sorts of "legit" sites, including eccie.net, ourhome2.net, BP, EROS, CL, ML, AHC, etc., etc.

They do it in hopes of building some web presence, so they can get some ad revenue, but they usually falter or fail because "legit" providers, hobbyists, too, resent the "theft."

Best thing I can offer in the way of advice is to always "watermark" any photo that is put out there, usually with your own web host or website address. Yes, that obscures some of the photo, but it also broadcasts to all who see the stolen photos that they are stolen.

As for suing anybody, best of luck in doing that.

"Avatars" cannot sue anybody without revealing extremely personal data. e.g., "Max Rax" cannot file a suit in any court unless showing a real name dba (doing business as) Real Name, nor can "Shysterjohn" represent anyone in a suit without revealing the same type of personal data.

About all any one of us can do is reveal here or privately the names of such sites so legit folks can check and see if they are being misrepresented there or just avoid going there.

There are some "very private" sites, and harvesting data or photos there is somewhat impeded ("right click disabled") but trust me on this, anything I can see on a website I can copy or steal within a minute or less and usually with nothing more than one or two mouse clicks.

So, never put anything out on the 'net you cannot afford to lose or reveal. Nothing is ever a secret if more than one person knows it.

[ShysterJon]

Originally Posted by sky_wire

Skip copyright law. Unauthorized use of a persons name or likeness has been recognized in tort law for over 100 years. Unfortunately, the so called legal rule is merely a preamble to a catalog of exceptions. You can always sue someone. Will you win? It depends.

It's not if you win -- it's if you win significant money damages, at least enough to pay yourself and your attorney for his or her time. What would be the measure of damages here? Someone misappropriated my pic and info that I use to advertise to clients and reproduced it in another forum so that other prospective clients can see it? They're showing my old pics, when I was younger and slimmer? I don't think this use would outrage a jury enough to award significant damages.

And I don't wanna hear "it's the principle of the thing!" Whenever I hear that from someone who wants me to do work, I translate it to mean, "Jonny, you won't get paid."

btw, there are dozens of phony sites that reproduce information about attorneys. If I google my name, I come up with more than 30 of them. Some of the sites state I deal with types of cases that I don't handle. But it's never been a big deal to me. I can just say no to a case. And sometimes I get a legitimate client from one of the phony sites.

Originally Posted by ck1942

"Avatars" cannot sue anybody without revealing extremely personal data. e.g., "Max Rax" cannot file a suit in any court unless showing a real name dba (doing business as) Real Name, nor can "Shysterjohn" represent anyone in a suit without revealing the same type of personal data.

Everyone knows my real name is "ShysterJon." I had parents with a sense of humor.

[MaxiMilyen]

We appreciate the time and effort you gents have made to educate us on our rights concerning this matter. It's a shame there are those who would do things of this nature, create profiles for us using our own emails, not informing us this was even done, and not give us the password for said profiles unless we ask nicely if we are able to figure out how to contact them...LOL. Editing is a sham on that site as well. They've chosen to ignore our preferences once we do get access to Edit and try to make the changes that suit us more comfortably. Why they offer a choice of who views our profiles (public or members only) and then refuse to honor our choice is a mystery to me. Why it matters to them that my phone number is on the site and their refusal to allow me to edit it out, is senseless. I screen via email and not by phone 99.9 percent of the time and it's kind of a big deal to change our telephone numbers. I know they don't care and it is of little or no concern to them.

It seems "they" just want control so bad, they had to sneak around like the lowly thieves they have presented themselves to be, and steal the work from others who have built their own sites in a reputable manner. What's the use of giving us an edit feature if we have no control over the edits we want...sigh Pimp Daddy wannabes everywhere! I have no intention of ever seeing a client who would frequent that site on a regular basis.

rant over...LOL

[sky_wire]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

It's not if you win -- it's if you win significant money damages, at least enough to pay yourself and your attorney for his or her time. What would be the measure of damages here? Someone misappropriated my pic and info that I use to advertise to clients and reproduced it in another forum so that other prospective clients can see it? They're showing my old pics, when I was younger and slimmer? I don't think this use would outrage a jury enough to award significant damages.

And I don't wanna hear "it's the principle of the thing!" Whenever I hear that from someone who wants me to do work, I translate it to mean, "Jonny, you won't get paid."

btw, there are dozens of phony sites that reproduce information about attorneys. If I google my name, I come up with more than 30 of them. Some of the sites state I deal with types of cases that I don't handle. But it's never been a big deal to me. I can just say no to a case. And sometimes I get a legitimate client from one of the phony sites.

Everyone knows my real name is "ShysterJon." I had parents with a sense of humor.

Using tort law you could at least get an injuction preventing usage of the image, even if it isn't copyrighted.

[Guest071613-2]

Okay aside from the images, they also have a feature on the main page that says things like "Provider X updated her profile" or Provider X uploaded 4 new photos" when those providers are not doing those things, the site admin. is. So basically anyone can build a site, put up pics of people they find on the internet, along with their contact information, plagiarize things they have written, and also pretend to be those people, and there is pretty much no recourse for those who are affected by it?

Geezus that sucks big time!

[MaxiMilyen]

I concur! Is it possible to post a reward leading to the identity of the owner(s) of the site? LOL