Debt Clock. How long has it been since you looked?

[LovingKayla]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


How's it look guys.... Soooo what happens next?


My personal favorite is the actual unemployment number. How can anyone with 5 brain cells think we are even close to a recovery? Do you not understand how cycles and trends work? I can't say much, I just learned recently. I sooo wish the right was wrong... but they aren't.

[CJ7]

looks?

not as bad as it did

http://www.skymachines.com/US-Nation...ental-Term.htm

[CJ7]

yup, unemployment still sucks even though its only 1 % higher than it was when you know who left office

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

[Sexyeccentric1]

Originally Posted by CJ7

looks?

not as bad as it did

http://www.skymachines.com/US-Nation...ental-Term.htm

Originally Posted by CJ7

yup, unemployment still sucks even though its only 1 % higher than it was when you know who left office

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Yup..!

[joe bloe]

It's pretty depressing, but the really bad number is the unfunded liabilites. The unfunded liabilities are the real debt; that's all the promises the federal government has made such as federal pensions, Medicare, Social Security, etc. They're over 100 trillion. This image is a picture of what 114 trillion in 100 dollar bills looks like. The two columns to the right of the World Trade Center towers are stacks of 100 dollar bills. I think Cute Old Guy posted this yesterday.




We've been kicking the can down the road since FDR when it comes to fiscal responsibility. This is what the end of the road looks like.

[CJ7]

We've been kicking the can down the road since FDR when it comes to fiscal responsibility. This is what the end of the road looks like.


if the right was honestly interested in debt reduction they would lump offshore corporate tax loopholes, tax cuts for the top 2%, and oil "tax breaks" into the medicare/SS scenario ... they talk a good line, but dont show it.

[Sexyeccentric1]

Originally Posted by CJ7

We've been kicking the can down the road since FDR when it comes to fiscal responsibility. This is what the end of the road looks like.


if the right was honestly interested in debt reduction they would lump offshore corporate tax loopholes, tax cuts for the top 2%, and oil "tax breaks" into the medicare/SS scenario ... they talk a good line, but dont show it.

Agreed..

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CJ7

We've been kicking the can down the road since FDR when it comes to fiscal responsibility. This is what the end of the road looks like.


if the right was honestly interested in debt reduction they would lump offshore corporate tax loopholes, tax cuts for the top 2%, and oil "tax breaks" into the medicare/SS scenario ... they talk a good line, but dont show it.

All the proposed changes in the tax code, coming from the left, are designed to punish the evil rich and the evil corporations. These proposed tax increases are a red herring; they would do little if anything to balance the budget. There's a good chance revenue to the federal government would actually decrease if they were implemented.

The only way to bring the federal budget into balance is to dramatically cut federal spending and gradually grow our way out of this mess.

It may be politically impossible to solve our debt crisis. Politicians have to ask people to voluntarily take less from the government in order to save the country and stop robbing from future generations. Unfortunately most people seem to be willing to continue looting the treasury until the problem is no longer fixable. I guess we'll see.

[CJ7]

Ok joe, rhetoric aside, how serious are you about debt reduction?


do we live in a nation where only a few are responsible for ALL?

curious minds inquire

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CJ7

Ok joe, rhetoric aside, how serious are you about debt reduction?


do we live in a nation where only a few are responsible for ALL?

curious minds inquire

I'm willing to live under a federal government is limited in its actions by the constitution. That's really all we have to do to dramatically cut spending. Just don't allow the federal to do anything it's prohibited from doing by law (the constitution).

This should be easy to do since everyone in congress and the president have sworn to do precisely that; uphold and defend the constitution.

[Sexyeccentric1]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

All the proposed changes in the tax code, coming from the left, are designed to punish the evil rich and the evil corporations.

By the evil corporations do you mean by leveling the playing field on taxes and opposing loopholes and distortions in tax and regulation, and the abuses that flow from them. And.. promoting transparency in international finance and opposing secrecy? Do you mean by promoting tax compliance and opposing tax evasion, tax avoidance, and all the mechanisms that enable owners and controllers of wealth to escape their responsibilities to the societies on which they and their wealth depend. Tax havens, or secrecy jurisdictions that lie at the center of American's concerns, and you object to opposing them?

It is corporate monopolies and manipulation of the tax code system which has too many loopholes and need to be shut down and changed. Open your eyes and get out of your bubble.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by Sexyeccentric1

By the evil corporations do you mean by leveling the playing field on taxes and opposing loopholes and distortions in tax and regulation, and the abuses that flow from them. And.. promoting transparency in international finance and opposing secrecy? Do you mean by promoting tax compliance and opposing tax evasion, tax avoidance, and all the mechanisms that enable owners and controllers of wealth to escape their responsibilities to the societies on which they and their wealth depend. Tax havens, or secrecy jurisdictions that lie at the center of American's concerns, and you object to opposing them?

It is corporate monopolies and manipulation of the tax code system which has too many loopholes and need to be shut down and changed. Open your eyes and get out of your bubble.

I still say cutting spending is the only real answer. Some closing of loopholes may be necessary; for instance GE makes billions and pays no income tax. But closing loopholes is not going to get us out of this mess. We need to reduce spending by roughly one trillion dollars a year or increase revenue by one trillion to balance the budget.

I've never heard any liberal make an argument that their proposed tax reforms would produce increases in revenue anywhere near enough to bring the budget into balance. At least not an argument that was based on actually crunching the numbers.

Talking about making the rich pay their "fair share" and making big business pay more is just class warfare.

Probably neither party has the balls to make meaningful cuts to entitlement spending because it's political suicide; without that we're screwed. The odds are we'll continue down this road unti the currency is worthless. If you want to see America's future looks like, read history, The Weimar Republic is probably the best example of where we're headed.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

I'm willing to live under a federal government is limited in its actions by the constitution. That's really all we have to do to dramatically cut spending. Just don't allow the federal to do anything it's prohibited from doing by law (the constitution).

This should be easy to do since everyone in congress and the president have sworn to do precisely that; uphold and defend the constitution.

forget I ask for rhetoric to be put aside.

Cut spending is only half the equation, and at this point a spending cut without increasing revenue only keeps the country in a stagnant economy.

The right continues the mantra "you cant spend your way out" Credible economist world wide say just the opposite. If we (government) dont spend when things are bleak, nobody does, if nobody is spending,instant recession/depression.
Increasing revenue offsets spending, without that the debt grows even more.

Increase revenue, cut spending and allow the economy to right itself ... THEN taxes can be restructured as needed, not until.

Sooner or later it WILL happen ... when it gets to the point it HAS to happen we are basically fucked

[LovingKayla]

DFD voted to CUT their own retirements. And ya I'm down for shit to fail so we can go through a short depression and bounce back. This current years and years and years of hardship w no end in sight is for the birds.

[CJ7]

LOL


you didnt like the last recession so youre ready for another one?


keep your fingers crossed, Im buying a few lotto tickets tonight, you may not even be able to spell recession in a day or two.