Eroding trust in LE

[boardman]

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/ho...-botched-raid/


I've been following this since the afternoon it happened. I knew immediately that something didn't add up.

The more that comes out the more fucked up it is. Two innocent people and their dog murdered and HPD and the City is throwing Gerald Goins under the bus to buy time to save their own asses. It's not that the guy wasn't a a ticking timebomb, he was and they knew it. The problem is that the thin blue line protected him far too long apparently. I get the need for protecting your brothers in arms but with involvement in multiple shootings, written reprimands, lawsuits and it sounding like the guy was known as a loose cannon, why was he still wearing a badge?


Acevedo is doing what he can and he should be commended for trying to turn it around but why has this been allowed to continue in the first place in any department at any level? How many other departments are going to follow his lead now. How many cops and innocents have to get killed to understand this is not a reasonable tactic? Why is an appointed muni court judge able to sign a warrant like this? I mean he's little more than a traffic judge. Getting a warrant that allows cops to bust down the front door of a person's home should be harder than getting a FISA warrant....Oh, wait.


Another thing that is being left unquestioned is this: How in the hell did 4 cops with body armor and automatic weapons get shot when they were facing one guy with a .357 revolver? Was the guy a cowboy action shooter? The Lone Ranger? It's pretty apparent when looking at the bullet holes in the front of the house that the cops on the outside went full retard when the shooting started.


Maybe the biggest question of all: Where were the body cameras? Not one cop was wearing one?



I heard Michael Berry arguing that this was just one bad apple and it shouldn't reflect on the whole of LEOs. He's right inasmuch as the individual did appear to have submitted false information and is solely responsible for this incident bu I have to disagree to a point when it is evident they aren't policing their own especially knowing that the trust the public has in them is eroding quicker than ever. The overall problem is a systemic one. Rather than address it appropriately the solution will most likely be doubling down with a stronger show of force even if the no knock warrant is no longer used. I don't expect every cop in that task force should be held responsible to scrutinize the warrant or affidavit but they need to show some restraint in at least identifying their target rather than just throwing up a wall of bullets blindly through walls when the shooting starts.



Now the Feds are involved . Yep, a lot of trust there right?

[tbone2u]

I may have heard this wrong but I heard most got shot by friendly fire....meaning they shot each other which in itself is pretty fucking stupid.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by tbone2u

I may have heard this wrong but I heard most got shot by friendly fire....meaning they shot each other which in itself is pretty fucking stupid.

Exactly and that part seems to be getting overlooked. There are plenty of bullet holes that appear to be going into the house. Cops on the outside were shooting in without knowing who or what was on the other side.

[loveitdou]

Some times I see someone protesting some lame policy and I think well he's doing that because he will be hurt by it.

The no knock policy is stupid political BS. I mean in Texas most homeowners are fully armed for their own protection. I do believe that the great majority of HPD are good guys and a few bad eggs just like society, stupid mistakes happen and the wrong people wind up being victimized. The concept is susposed to be to surprise the criminal element and help the officers make entry and control the situation without getting or doing harm. Well folks it sure as hell does not work that way. Now I live overseas so why am I saying this? I have several buddies (Combat Vets) who will easily and efficiently Kill anyone who kicks in their door unannounced, and they will probably get killed or at best just shot (again) at the same time, it is an Insanely Stupid Policy and the police know it. The Police Chief on the other hand is apparently a stupid political hack though and there we go.

[Guest033019]

The explanation of body cams was explained in which Acevado stated they only ordered enough body cams for those LE on traffic patrol.. But said more cams were ordered so that even those serving warrants will be required to wear them!

My thing is what was there reason for not thinking that they needed to wear body cams in the first place when they were initially ordered?

Commend Acevado for trying to turn it around lmao He knows he has ABSOLUTELY no choice! Acevado was praising the Cop who was fired in the beginning & now look!

I seen the live meeting & he was getting angry but he obviously doesn't understand how this affects the Houston police Department.. Yea they're taking steps NOW but they should have already had steps in place!

2 innocent people were killed now many cases getting dismissed.. In My opinion anyone who was involved in that warrant should be charged with MURDER!

I haven't heard much about the informant besides he didn't buy from them or that house! Maybe this is a big cover up to a even bigger situation on the officer's part that was relieved of duty!

[boardman]

Originally Posted by Amiliah Rayne

The explanation of body cams was explained in which Acevado stated they only ordered enough body cams for those LE on traffic patrol.. But said more cams were ordered so that even those serving warrants will be required to wear them!

My thing is what was there reason for not thinking that they needed to wear body cams in the first place when they were initially ordered?

Commend Acevado for trying to turn it around lmao He knows he has ABSOLUTELY no choice! Acevado was praising the Cop who was fired in the beginning & now look!

I seen the live meeting & he was getting angry but he obviously doesn't understand how this affects the Houston police Department.. Yea they're taking steps NOW but they should have already had steps in place!

2 innocent people were killed now many cases getting dismissed.. In My opinion anyone who was involved in that warrant should be charged with MURDER!

I haven't heard much about the informant besides he didn't buy from them or that house! Maybe this is a big cover up to a even bigger situation on the officer's part that was relieved of duty!

I guess I was trying to allow for "lesson learned so let's fix it" but I do think that it's an overreach.



It doesn't sound like a CI actually ever may a buy.



Exigent circumstances has devolved from basically being allowed to enter a home in the case of occupant incapacity to being able to enter the home forcefully and without notice to protect the officers entering and to preserve evidence. Unfortunately it's been upheld by the courts which continues the devolution. A home should be considered a temple. I'm not even sure I'm comfortable with a single judge having the power to authorize that kind of entry.


There has to be other options that better align with the fourth amendment.


Joe Grimaldi the Houston Police officers union President went off right after the incident basically putting the general public that officers were tired of the disrespect. Kind of made it sound like a "shoot first, ask questions later" policy was going to be the new protocol. He's been conspicuously silent as the facts of this debacle have surfaced.

[bb1961]

Bad things happen with no knock warrants,
but they had a stronger show of force like you said boardman...and no one was killed!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht4PfYkJjoc

[HoustonDan]

Police in the US are out of control. They’ve become militarized and are being equipped with the authority to execute Americans without question.

I’m legitimately frightened for friends who are minorities and live in less and ideal circumstances. It is a weird thing to know that because I’m white, educated, and well off my chances of surviving a police encounter are substantially higher than a friend who hasn’t had the same privileges in life. That isn’t the way our system should work.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by bb1961

Bad things happen with no knock warrants,
but they had a stronger show of force like you said boardman...and no one was killed!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht4PfYkJjoc

I've thought about that scene quite a bit lately.

[tbone2u]

I have too. I would have no problem shooting someone breaking into my home.
A thief doesn't normally do a violent break-in so hopefully I can have a few seconds to locate a weapon. With a violent break-in I doubt I would have enough time. There is still a lot I don't understand with what happened.

[Guest033019]

Originally Posted by tbone2u

I have too. I would have no problem shooting someone breaking into my home.
A thief doesn't normally do a violent break-in so hopefully I can have a few seconds to locate a weapon. With a violent break-in I doubt I would have enough time. There is still a lot I don't understand with what happened.

Me either there's to many variations of stories released by the press!

[boardman]

Originally Posted by tbone2u

I have too. I would have no problem shooting someone breaking into my home.
A thief doesn't normally do a violent break-in so hopefully I can have a few seconds to locate a weapon. With a violent break-in I doubt I would have enough time. There is still a lot I don't understand with what happened.

Fortunately I have an attack cat that will buy me those extra few seconds. It sounds like Tuttle's dog did the same.

I don't walk around the house with a gun on me either. Never figured I had to. My biggest concern is burglary or at least it has been. So I keep one bedside. I don't have any reason to have any criminals breaking in violently. If the cops did because they got it wrong everyone would be better off if I went ahead and tried to take a couple out with me like Tuttle did.

I figure he got off one shot with that revolver, haven't seen anything to indicate how many times he shot. He may have even realized what was happening. We'll never know what really went on inside the house BECAUSE THERE WERE NO BODY CAMS. Nicholas probably did what many wives would do by trying to grab the gun. Not to use it but to stop the situation from getting worse. The other three cops were most likely the victims of friendly fire when the shooting started.

I might get off a couple more shots in the same situation. A revolver isn't my platform for home defense.

[txdot-guy]

I don't blame Acevedo for this. In a city the size of Houston the police department can be a bureaucratic monolithic entity. Very hard to change course. Hopefully the aftermath of this incident will give enough cover to those at the top to make some significant changes to police procedure.

[Russ38]

Originally Posted by boardman

I guess I was trying to allow for "lesson learned so let's fix it" but I do think that it's an overreach.



It doesn't sound like a CI actually ever may a buy.



Exigent circumstances has devolved from basically being allowed to enter a home in the case of occupant incapacity to being able to enter the home forcefully and without notice to protect the officers entering and to preserve evidence. Unfortunately it's been upheld by the courts which continues the devolution. A home should be considered a temple. I'm not even sure I'm comfortable with a single judge having the power to authorize that kind of entry.


There has to be other options that better align with the fourth amendment.


Joe Grimaldi the Houston Police officers union President went off right after the incident basically putting the general public that officers were tired of the disrespect. Kind of made it sound like a "shoot first, ask questions later" policy was going to be the new protocol. He's been conspicuously silent as the facts of this debacle have surfaced.

All very true bm.....one of the biggest clusterfucks in HPD history IMO....no doubt some seriously shady shit going on that we’ll never know the full extent of. But with the limited information we’ve been given....as a homeowner, I would have reacted the same way.....then and now....

[instfixer]

Originally Posted by tbone2u

I may have heard this wrong but I heard most got shot by friendly fire....meaning they shot each other which in itself is pretty fucking stupid.

What we have here in this town is Keystone Cops (remember them?) death squad