The Killing of Al

[Yssup Rider]

US forces killed nine more al Qaeda terrorists in Yemen yesterday, including the son of Anwar al-Awlaki who was linked to Major Nidal Hasan, the shooter in the bloodbath at Fort Hood two years ago, as well as the so-called underwear bomber.

Yemen continues to struggle to overthrow a brutal dictatorship.

Are we helping the situation or hindering it? I'm not really sure, but in my opinion, the argument that the US is soft on terrorism has been proven false once again.

Thoughts?

[Billy_Saul]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

US forces killed nine more al Qaeda terrorists in Yemen yesterday, including the son of Anwar al-Awlaki who was linked to Major Nidal Hasan, the shooter in the bloodbath at Fort Hood two years ago, as well as the so-called underwear bomber.

Yemen continues to struggle to overthrow a brutal dictatorship.

Are we helping the situation or hindering it? I'm not really sure, but in my opinion, the argument that the US is soft on terrorism has been proven false once again.

Thoughts?

It's the only venue that Obama has been able to achieve any successes thanks to the competence of the US military. Going forward this does not bode well as the next election approaches. Yemen, Libya, Uganda, whats next?

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

US forces killed nine more al Qaeda terrorists in Yemen yesterday, including the son of Anwar al-Awlaki who was linked to Major Nidal Hasan, the shooter in the bloodbath at Fort Hood two years ago, as well as the so-called underwear bomber.

Yemen continues to struggle to overthrow a brutal dictatorship.

Are we helping the situation or hindering it? I'm not really sure, but in my opinion, the argument that the US is soft on terrorism has been proven false once again.

Thoughts?

al-Awlaki never handed a bomb or a gun to anyone. His only "link" to morons like the underwear bomber and Hasan was that he may have had an encouraging word with them, egging them on in their solo-pathology. But these guys are not terrorists. Lone individuals like these idiots do not have the organization, finance, training or effectiveness of any real terrorists.

Last I heard making speeches isn't a capital offense. However when a government's given the power to kill its citizens without charge or trial you should expect that laws will not be followed.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

al-Awlaki never handed a bomb or a gun to anyone. His only "link" to morons like the underwear bomber and Hasan was that he may have had an encouraging word with them, egging them on in their solo-pathology. But these guys are not terrorists. Lone individuals like these idiots do not have the organization, finance, training or effectiveness of any real terrorists.

Last I heard making speeches isn't a capital offense. However when a government's given the power to kill its citizens without charge or trial you should expect that laws will not be followed.

If I'm hanging out in a house where drugs are being sold, I can expect to have my face planted in the carpet when Swat comes through the door, whether I was the one selling or not. If you encourage people to commit terrorist acts against the United States then move to Yemen and embed yourself with known terrorists while helping to plan attacks (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/anwar-...ry?id=14641294), you can expect to get a Hellfire missile shot up your rear end. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

If I'm hanging out in a house where drugs are being sold, I can expect to have my face planted in the carpet when Swat comes through the door, whether I was the one selling or not. If you encourage people to commit terrorist acts against the United States then move to Yemen and embed yourself with known terrorists while helping to plan attacks (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/anwar-...ry?id=14641294), you can expect to get a Hellfire missile shot up your rear end. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Yeah but that's not what happened.

The target wasn't the real terrorists he was next to..it was him.

He was the one with the executive death order signed for, and it was signed because of things he said.

The motive is to let other American citizens know that the law no longer protects them, and that they can be summarily killed if they voice support for our adversaries.

One may agree or disagree with this policy, but it's clearly unconstitutional and contrary to the beliefs which heretofore guided us.

He was killed for being a loudmouth.

[Billy_Saul]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

He was killed for being a loudmouth.

who declared his affiliation with al-qaeda, and declared war on the United States. How is this different then a battlefield where an American joins rank with the other side and is firing his weapon at you. Of course you kill him.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

Yeah but that's not what happened.

The target wasn't the real terrorists he was next to..it was him.

He was the one with the executive death order signed for, and it was signed because of things he said.

The motive is to let other American citizens know that the law no longer protects them, and that they can be summarily killed if they voice support for our adversaries.

One may agree or disagree with this policy, but it's clearly unconstitutional and contrary to the beliefs which heretofore guided us.

He was killed for being a loudmouth.

That's not what happened? I'm sorry, do you have access to classified intelligence that disputes the below account? One of MANY?!
"Karim's brother had allegedly met with Awlaki in Yemen, and Karim and Awlaki had exchanged emails in early 2010 that show Awlaki's operational role in planning terror attacks. The emails were found on Karim's computer. Awlaki asked Karim, "Can you please specify your role in the airline industry, how much access do you have to airports, what information do you have on the limitations and cracks in present airport security systems." In a separate email, Awlaki told Karim that "our highest priority is the U.S.," and asked if it was possible to get a package or person on board a flight heading to the U.S."

Your Government conspiracy theories hold no water here. He was found time and time again to be in contact with terrorists.

"Al-Awlaki's name came up in a dozen terrorism plots in the U.S., UK, and Canada. The cases included suicide bombers in the 2005 London bombings, radical Islamic terrorists in the 2006 Toronto terrorism case, radical Islamic terrorists in the 2007 Fort Dix attack plot, the jihadist killer in the 2009 Little Rock military recruiting office shooting, and the 2010 Times Square bomber"

"Al-Awlaki was charged in absentia in Sana'a, Yemen, on November 2 with plotting to kill foreigners and being a member of al-Qaeda.[209] Ali al-Saneaa, the head of the prosecutor's office, announced the charges as part of a trial against another man, Hisham Assem, who had been accused of killing a Frenchman, also saying that al-Awlaki corresponded with Assem for months, encouraging him to kill foreigners."

Last but not least........
"In a video posted to the internet on November 8, 2010, al-Awlaki called for Muslims around the world to kill Americans "without hesitation"

Since he called for Muslims around the world to kill Americans without hesitation, it's only fitting that we turned the tables on him. While sitting on the side of the road for a little breakfast picnic, he got to see the U.S.A.'s response to his call for murder. In the end, he was dumb enough to believe that running to his vehicle and trying to out drive a drone would save him. The best part is that right now he's getting to find out that not only was he wrong about his beliefs in this world but I doubt he's finding the 72 virgins he promised so many others in the afterlife. The world's better off without him.

[Billy_Saul]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

I doubt he's finding the 72 virgins he promised so many others in the afterlife. The world's better off without him.

Maybe his reward is 72 worn out transvestites in the afterlife. Oops.........

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

That's not what happened? I'm sorry, do you have access to classified intelligence that disputes the below account? One of MANY?!
"Karim's brother had allegedly met with Awlaki in Yemen, and Karim and Awlaki had exchanged emails in early 2010 that show Awlaki's operational role in planning terror attacks. The emails were found on Karim's computer. Awlaki asked Karim, "Can you please specify your role in the airline industry, how much access do you have to airports, what information do you have on the limitations and cracks in present airport security systems." In a separate email, Awlaki told Karim that "our highest priority is the U.S.," and asked if it was possible to get a package or person on board a flight heading to the U.S."

Your Government conspiracy theories hold no water here. He was found time and time again to be in contact with terrorists.

"Al-Awlaki's name came up in a dozen terrorism plots in the U.S., UK, and Canada. The cases included suicide bombers in the 2005 London bombings, radical Islamic terrorists in the 2006 Toronto terrorism case, radical Islamic terrorists in the 2007 Fort Dix attack plot, the jihadist killer in the 2009 Little Rock military recruiting office shooting, and the 2010 Times Square bomber"

"Al-Awlaki was charged in absentia in Sana'a, Yemen, on November 2 with plotting to kill foreigners and being a member of al-Qaeda.[209] Ali al-Saneaa, the head of the prosecutor's office, announced the charges as part of a trial against another man, Hisham Assem, who had been accused of killing a Frenchman, also saying that al-Awlaki corresponded with Assem for months, encouraging him to kill foreigners."

Last but not least........
"In a video posted to the internet on November 8, 2010, al-Awlaki called for Muslims around the world to kill Americans "without hesitation"

Since he called for Muslims around the world to kill Americans without hesitation, it's only fitting that we turned the tables on him. While sitting on the side of the road for a little breakfast picnic, he got to see the U.S.A.'s response to his call for murder. In the end, he was dumb enough to believe that running to his vehicle and trying to out drive a drone would save him. The best part is that right now he's getting to find out that not only was he wrong about his beliefs in this world but I doubt he's finding the 72 virgins he promised so many others in the afterlife. The world's better off without him.

Nothing you've said here contradicts me.

He was in contact with lone nuts like the underwear bomber and Nadal by email to speak with them and nothing more.

He made speeches encouraging others to kill but didn't kill anyone himself.

He was "implicated" in "plots" alleged by third world governments, etc.

When you boil it all down and ply through the allegations all the facts show is that he spoke and encouraged others.

And the really pathetic part of all this is that none of the people he communicated with were competent operators organized into anything that pulled off anything in the US.

According to law a person has to do more than just talk or email some lone nut.

But the bottom line is this....the guy's a citizen. We have the ability to do snatches. It would be infinitely better to snatch this guy and bring him back for trial if the evidence is really there. It's just not there though.

[DTorrchia]

A year long debate in Congress on where he should be tried, millions of dollars in court house security, a public spectacle of a trial where he gets to publicize his radical views? Thanks but no thanks, I'll just take the missile!

[theaustinescorts]

You can say that about anyone accused by the government.

It would always be eaiser to just "stand him up against a wall and just shoot the scoundrel."

The courts exist for a reason.

Wait till the day it happens to you, God forbid.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

You can say that about anyone accused by the government.

It would always be eaiser to just "stand him up against a wall and just shoot the scoundrel."

The courts exist for a reason.

Wait till the day it happens to you, God forbid.

If he wanted his day in court, maybe he should have remained in the United States. Running off to Yemen, linking up with Al-Qaeda elements, planning and plotting on how to blow up airliners, calling for the murder of American's "without hesitation", well, those actions don't earn you a court date, those actions mark you as an enemy combatant.

I'm fairly confident I'll never do anything that would cause my government to label me a terrorist. Having said that, there's a reason I'm a firm believer in the Second Amendment to our glorious Constitution. I exercise my right to keep and bear arms to ensure that I remain a citizen, not a subject and that I am prepared to deal with any contingencies, be they foreign or domestic.

[greymouse]

I was going to comment that Al-Awlaki was a US citizen by virtue of his Yemeni parents being present here when he was born but TAE had now done that, probably when he realized that the some of the others did not know that, not that it apparently matters to them either.

Wikipedia on Al-Awalki's education in the US is interesting:

"Al-Awlaki's parents are from Yemen. His father, Nasser al-Aulaqi, was a Fulbright Scholar[40] who earned a master's degree in agricultural economics at New Mexico State University in 1971, received a doctorate at the University of Nebraska, and worked at the University of Minnesota from 1975 to 1977.[15][41] Nasser also served as Agriculture Minister and as President of Sana'a University, and is a prominent member of Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh's ruling party.[15][41][42][43] Yemen's Prime Minister since March 2007, Ali Mohammed Mujur, is a relative of al-Awlaki.[44]
Al-Awlaki was born in 1971 in the United States. In 1978, when he was seven years old, he and his family returned to Yemen.[45][21] He then lived in Yemen for 11 years, and studied at Azal Modern School.[46]
Al-Awlaki returned to the U.S state of Colorado in 1991 to attend college. He earned a B.S. in Civil Engineering from Colorado State University (1994), where he was President of the Muslim Student Association.[46] He attended the university on a foreign student visa and a government scholarship from Yemen, apparently by claiming to be born in that country, according to a former U.S. security agent.[47] He spent a summer of his college years training with the Afghan mujahideen.[21] Al-Awlaki also earned an M.A. in Education Leadership from San Diego State University. He worked on a Doctorate degree in Human Resource Development at George Washington University Graduate School of Education & Human Development from January to December 2001.[7][41][48][49][50][51][52][53]
Al-Awlaki's Islamic education consisted of a few intermittent months with various scholars, and reading and contemplating works by several prominent Islamic scholars.[10] Puzzled Muslim scholars said they did not understand al‑Awlaki's popularity, because while he spoke fluent English and could therefore reach a large non-Arabic-speaking audience, he lacked formal Islamic training and study.[11] Douglas Murray, executive director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, a think tank that studies British radicalization, says his followers "will routinely describe Awlaki as a vital and highly respected scholar, [while he] is actually an al-Qaida-affiliate nut case".[11]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki

Since a lot of young people who come to the US to go to school will be Important in their home countries eventually, one way or another, it appears we are doing a relatively poor job influencing them to promote the American Way when they go home. Maybe because we ourselves have lost our Way so badly.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by greymouse

Since a lot of young people who come to the US to go to school will be Important in their home countries eventually, one way or another, it appears we are doing a relatively poor job influencing them to promote the American Way when they go home. Maybe because we ourselves have lost our Way so badly.

I believe that's a direct result of the religion they practice....Islam, not necessarily a reflection of us having "lost our way so badly". I'm not one of those that believe Islam in and of itself is bad, no religion usually is.
However the way that Islam is presented and taught to many of the radical Muslim men is in it's strictest form. Kind of like if pastors and priests here in the United States would teach only the Old Testament and never focus on the lessons and preachings of the New Testament which is where most of the Christian values of forgiveness, living in peace etc can be found. The same holds true for the Holy Qu'ran. So you take a young Muslim man who comes to the United States but who follows the more stricter verses of the Qu'ran and much of what he sees around him in the United States will be in contrast to what he's being taught to believe in through his religion. Then add in the mix of brainwashing that takes places when someone like Anwar al-Awlaki attends training in radical terrorists training camps where again they are encouraged to adhere to the strictest form of Islam and are told how "evil" the United States is and it's no wonder how his belief system is formed and how it will be in direct contrast to the values we believe in the United States. It's been shown time and time again that many of these young men will spend hours upon hours watching nothing but videos of insurgents in their home countries fighting American and other Government troops and sermons from the most radical of Islamic Imans. They are taught over and over that to kill an American is their highest duty to their religion. Look at much of Anwar's writings to wanna-be terrorists that attempted or did carry out acts against us and you'll see that rhetoric emphasized over and over again. It's quite simply a culture clash in it's purest form and unless we adhere to their cultural ideals and religion, the extremists among them will always hate us and encourage others to do likewise.

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

If he wanted his day in court, maybe he should have remained in the United States. Running off to Yemen, linking up with Al-Qaeda elements, planning and plotting on how to blow up airliners, calling for the murder of American's "without hesitation", well, those actions don't earn you a court date, those actions mark you as an enemy combatant.

I'm fairly confident I'll never do anything that would cause my government to label me a terrorist. Having said that, there's a reason I'm a firm believer in the Second Amendment to our glorious Constitution. I exercise my right to keep and bear arms to ensure that I remain a citizen, not a subject and that I am prepared to deal with any contingencies, be they foreign or domestic.

The point isn't what he may have wanted; it's what any citizen deserves, regardless of how their citizenship came about.

It's probably true that under this government nothing you're doing now would cause you to be labeled a terrorist, but other scenarios might emerge where you would. For example, let's say you volunteered to work for a group like Executive Outcomes or Sandline, and they were fighting someone like Savimbi in Angola, and the US wanted to support him. Next thing you know D'Torchia is tagged with belonging to a "terrorist" group, and that's all it will take.....

That's how we could lose D'Torchia to a missile-firing drone or an old-fashioned contract killer in the African bush or Kinshasa.