Count #19 in the trump document indictment

[Tigbitties38]

Count #19 in the superseding indictment is the silver bullet trump has no viable defense against. It is a document that the president can't declassify in any way.
There is no question trump was in possession of the document. It was recovered during the search of his Florida residence. Trump is claiming he declassified all documents in some way. Most experts are dubious of his claims. Count #19 makes all of trump's claims moot.

The picture taken of the overflowing box of documents (taken by one trump aid and sent to another) shows other unknown people had access to the documents. Trump claimed FBI staged photo.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Mar-Lago.html

January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022
19 SECRET//FORMERL Y RESTRICTED DATA
Undated document concerning nuclear weaponry of the United States.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/US-v...a-23-80101.pdf

"WASHINGTON, June 18 (Reuters) - Even when he was president, Donald Trump lacked the legal authority to declassify a U.S. nuclear weapons-related document that he is charged with illegally possessing, security experts said, contrary to the former U.S. president’s claim.

The secret document, listed as No. 19 in the indictment charging Trump with endangering national security, can under the Atomic Energy Act only be declassified through a process that by the statute involves the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense.
For that reason, the experts said, the nuclear document is unique among the 31 in the indictment because the declassification of the others is governed by executive order.
“The claim that he (Trump) could have declassified it is not relevant in the case of the nuclear weapons information because it was not classified by executive order but by law,” said Steven Aftergood, a government secrecy expert with the Federation of American Scientists.

The special status of nuclear-related information further erodes what many legal experts say is aweak defensecentered around declassification. Without providing evidence, Trump has claimed hedeclassified the documentsbefore removing them from the White House.

Prosecutors likely will argue that declassification is irrelevant because Trump was charged under the Espionage Act, which predates classification and criminalizes the unauthorized retention of "national defense information," a broad term covering any secrets that could be helpful to the nation's enemies.

Document No. 19 is marked "FRD," or Formerly Restricted Data, a classification given to secret information involving the military use of nuclear weapons. The indictment described it as undated and “concerning nuclear weaponry of the United States.”

RULES FOR NUCLEAR DATA

Trump, who pleaded not guilty on Tuesday, has said he declassified while still in office the more than 100 secret documents he took to his Florida resort home, Mar-a-Lago, a contention echoed by Republican lawmakers and other supporters.

But Aftergood and other experts said that the Atomic Energy Act (AEA) of 1954 - under which the Department of Energy oversees the U.S. nuclear arsenal - defines a process for declassifying nuclear weapons data, some of the U.S. government’s most closely guarded secrets.

“The statute is very clear. There’s nothing that says the president can make that decision,” said a former U.S. national security official familiar with the classification system, who asked to remain anonymous.

The most sensitive nuclear weapons information is classified as "RD," for Restricted Data, and covers warhead designs and uranium and plutonium production, according to a DOE guide entitled “Understanding Classification.”

The Department of Energy downgrades from RD to FRD nuclear weapons data it needs to share with the Pentagon, but the materials remain classified, experts said.

Materials classified as FRD include data on the U.S. arsenal size, the storage and safety of warheads, their locations and their yields or power, according to the guide.

FRD information only can be declassified through a process governed by the AEA in which the secretaries of energy and defense determine that the designation “may be removed,” according to a Justice Department FAQ sheet.

Not everyone agrees that the president lacks the power to declassify nuclear data.
David Jonas, who served for 10 years as general counsel for the U.S. National Nuclear Security Administration, the Department of Energy division that oversees the nuclear arsenal,
said Trump had the constitutional authority to declassify all classified documents under the "unitary executive theory," which holds that Congress cannot limit the president’s control over the executive branch.

“The president is the executive branch and so he can declassify anything that is nuclear information,” he said.
Other experts dispute this view.
Elizabeth Goitein, a national security law expert at the Brennan Center for Justice, said the U.S. Constitution gives Congress the authority to limit presidential power related to most national security issues and “there is no question it can legislate in this area.”

While the president can request declassification of FRD materials, “it’s got to go through both DOE (Department of Energy) and DOD (Department of Defense). And it takes forever,” said Thomas Blanton, director of the National Security Archive.

FRD materials must be stored in a properly secured space, said Aftergood. "“Sticking it in your bathroom would not qualify,” he said, referring to the indictment’s allegation that Trump stored classified documents in a Mar-a-Lago bathroom.
(This story has been corrected to fix the name of organization to "Federation of American Scientists," not "Federation of Atomic Scientists," in paragraph 4)

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tru...ay-2023-06-18/

[Tigbitties38]

Any body have any insiders talking about this?
This looks pretty bad. Isn't one out of any number of counts good enough for...what do they call it....(taking a page out of a decidedly unsavory guy's playbook),

A CONVICTION?

Known to be in his possession. Check.
Subpoena issued for the document. Check.
Search warrant served and executed. Check.
Nuclear info document recovered from defendant's residence/possession.
Check.

Stay tuned.

Originally Posted by Tigbitties38

Count #19 in the superseding indictment is the silver bullet trump has no viable defense against. It is a document that the president can't declassify in any way.
There is no question trump was in possession of the document. It was recovered during the search of his Florida residence. Trump is claiming he declassified all documents in some way. Most experts are dubious of his claims. Count #19 makes all of trump's claims moot.

The picture taken of the overflowing box of documents (taken by one trump aid and sent to another) shows other unknown people had access to the documents. Trump claimed FBI staged photo.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Mar-Lago.html

January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022
19 SECRET//FORMERL Y RESTRICTED DATA
Undated document concerning nuclear weaponry of the United States.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/US-v...a-23-80101.pdf

"WASHINGTON, June 18 (Reuters) - Even when he was president, Donald Trump lacked the legal authority to declassify a U.S. nuclear weapons-related document that he is charged with illegally possessing, security experts said, contrary to the former U.S. president’s claim.

The secret document, listed as No. 19 in the indictment charging Trump with endangering national security, can under the Atomic Energy Act only be declassified through a process that by the statute involves the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense.
For that reason, the experts said, the nuclear document is unique among the 31 in the indictment because the declassification of the others is governed by executive order.
“The claim that he (Trump) could have declassified it is not relevant in the case of the nuclear weapons information because it was not classified by executive order but by law,” said Steven Aftergood, a government secrecy expert with the Federation of American Scientists.

The special status of nuclear-related information further erodes what many legal experts say is aweak defensecentered around declassification. Without providing evidence, Trump has claimed hedeclassified the documentsbefore removing them from the White House.

Prosecutors likely will argue that declassification is irrelevant because Trump was charged under the Espionage Act, which predates classification and criminalizes the unauthorized retention of "national defense information," a broad term covering any secrets that could be helpful to the nation's enemies.

Document No. 19 is marked "FRD," or Formerly Restricted Data, a classification given to secret information involving the military use of nuclear weapons. The indictment described it as undated and “concerning nuclear weaponry of the United States.”

RULES FOR NUCLEAR DATA

Trump, who pleaded not guilty on Tuesday, has said he declassified while still in office the more than 100 secret documents he took to his Florida resort home, Mar-a-Lago, a contention echoed by Republican lawmakers and other supporters.

But Aftergood and other experts said that the Atomic Energy Act (AEA) of 1954 - under which the Department of Energy oversees the U.S. nuclear arsenal - defines a process for declassifying nuclear weapons data, some of the U.S. government’s most closely guarded secrets.

“The statute is very clear. There’s nothing that says the president can make that decision,” said a former U.S. national security official familiar with the classification system, who asked to remain anonymous.

The most sensitive nuclear weapons information is classified as "RD," for Restricted Data, and covers warhead designs and uranium and plutonium production, according to a DOE guide entitled “Understanding Classification.”

The Department of Energy downgrades from RD to FRD nuclear weapons data it needs to share with the Pentagon, but the materials remain classified, experts said.

Materials classified as FRD include data on the U.S. arsenal size, the storage and safety of warheads, their locations and their yields or power, according to the guide.

FRD information only can be declassified through a process governed by the AEA in which the secretaries of energy and defense determine that the designation “may be removed,” according to a Justice Department FAQ sheet.

Not everyone agrees that the president lacks the power to declassify nuclear data.
David Jonas, who served for 10 years as general counsel for the U.S. National Nuclear Security Administration, the Department of Energy division that oversees the nuclear arsenal,
said Trump had the constitutional authority to declassify all classified documents under the "unitary executive theory," which holds that Congress cannot limit the president’s control over the executive branch.

“The president is the executive branch and so he can declassify anything that is nuclear information,” he said.
Other experts dispute this view.
Elizabeth Goitein, a national security law expert at the Brennan Center for Justice, said the U.S. Constitution gives Congress the authority to limit presidential power related to most national security issues and “there is no question it can legislate in this area.”

While the president can request declassification of FRD materials, “it’s got to go through both DOE (Department of Energy) and DOD (Department of Defense). And it takes forever,” said Thomas Blanton, director of the National Security Archive.

FRD materials must be stored in a properly secured space, said Aftergood. "“Sticking it in your bathroom would not qualify,” he said, referring to the indictment’s allegation that Trump stored classified documents in a Mar-a-Lago bathroom.
(This story has been corrected to fix the name of organization to "Federation of American Scientists," not "Federation of Atomic Scientists," in paragraph 4)

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tru...ay-2023-06-18/

[Jackie S]

“51 National Security Experts say President Trump could not de-classify documents”

[Tigbitties38]

Off topic. I understand why you avoid this topic. No trumpy wants to see a sure thing charge that trump can't wiggle out of. Can't wait to see a trumpy mole justify a not-guilty finding on good old count #19.

Originally Posted by Jackie S

“51 National Security Experts say President Trump could not de-classify documents”

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by Tigbitties38

Off topic. I understand why you avoid this topic. No trumpy wants to see a sure thing charge that trump can't wiggle out of. Can't wait to see a trumpy mole justify a not-guilty finding on good old count #19.

To the contrary, it is exactly on topic. Just as “51 experts” swore that Hunter’s Lap Top was Russian disinformation and helped the likes of Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler push the RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA lie, we now have “Experts” helping a corrupt Justice Department in their quest to bring down Trump with ambiguous indictments.

The Left used up any smidgen of credibility they ever had by parading forth Super Swampers such as Brennen and Clapper to propagate lie after lie after lie about President Trump, knowing that a corrupt Main Stream Media would publish it all as fact.

[Tigbitties38]

Bull shit. You repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true. You think it does but you yourself lack credibility. Look at your own misstatements in your post.
The 51 experts clearly said they didn't know if the laptop information was true or not. And they didn't swear it was Russian disinformation either. They said it "has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation".
They gave several examples of like operations done by the Russians to back their claim.
They clearly stated it was their opinion. We don't know what is true and what isn't. There is no smoking gun. There are no verified responses sent by hunter biden. It took a year before any info was confirmed by a second source forensic audit. Fox and WSJ both passed on the story because they couldn't confirm the story. The authors of the story refused to put their names on it.

Since it's a fact that trump was in possession of the document found at his residence though a legal execution of a search warrant(count 16 in the document indictment) and the laws it is covered by that reference the circumstances it occurred under, it's nothing like your "example" (which is also bull shit since no "experts" made the broad claim trump couldn't declassify documents).
How rich. You push a bunch lies in your response to justify your hijacking attempt. I stated nothing but provable facts. The post contains the facts that will be used in court to determine if trump is guilty or not. Your opiinions in your post will not be admitted in court.
You are trying to change the direction of the thread. Someone who believed tens of thousands of documented lies by trump.

Originally Posted by Jackie S

To the contrary, it is exactly on topic. Just as “51 experts” swore that Hunter’s Lap Top was Russian disinformation and helped the likes of Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler push the RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA lie, we now have “Experts” helping a corrupt Justice Department in their quest to bring down Trump with ambiguous indictments.

The Left used up any smidgen of credibility they ever had by parading forth Super Swampers such as Brennen and Clapper to propagate lie after lie after lie about President Trump, knowing that a corrupt Main Stream Media would publish it all as fact.

[biomed1]

Of these Pearls of Wisdom . . .

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[Jackie S]

To The Administrator:

If you are calling me out, may I point out that I believe all of the so called experts listed in the OP are lying just like the liars that propagated the RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA Hoax.

I can live with the OP’s rude comments toward me. It is up to you whether the Board can.

[Tiny]

What’s the big deal. This info wasn’t spread all over the internet, like what Snowden leaked. It’s very unlikely our enemies saw it. Well, I guess it’s possible if one of them took a dump in the Mar a Lago bathroom, but unlikely. The federal government is bringing this case because it wants to show it can fuck over ANYONE. And Trump got in this position in the first place because he’s a world class narcissist and wouldn’t hand over the documents. A pox on both their houses.

The Washington D C and Georgia indictments have some meat to them. This is just a sideshow, although not as chicken shit as the ridiculous New York porn star case.

And yeah Jackie, I wish Tigbitties would cut out the insults. He’s going to get banned again and then we won’t have him to entertain us.

[1blackman1]

He broke the law. He deserves the same punishment others have received. We want everyone treated equally, or least that’s the claim by the right wing law and order crowd. He was given an out and chose not to take it so he’ll be prosecuted. Just because you don’t like the law doesn’t mean anything.

We’ve got plenty of shitty laws. Most can’t be discussed on this forum.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

He broke the law. He deserves the same punishment others have received. We want everyone treated equally, or least that’s the claim by the right wing law and order crowd. He was given an out and chose not to take it so he’ll be prosecuted. Just because you don’t like the law doesn’t mean anything.

We’ve got plenty of shitty laws. Most can’t be discussed on this forum.

That’s right, it means nothing. We live under a government of the lawyers, by the lawyers and for the lawyers. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. The Democrats want to put white businessmen (e.g. Trump) in jail. And the Republicans would disproportionately put young black men in jail for nonviolent violations related to a subject we don’t discuss here. It’s now a state jail felony to see a provider in Texas.

There’s a reason law professor and civil rights advocate Harvey Silverglate titled his book Three Felonies a Day. There are a ton of laws on the books, to enable prosecutors to put any person they want in jail, including Mother Teresa, if she were still alive.

Fuck the LAW. If I were dictator and Snowden resurfaced I’d put him in an ankle bracelet. And I wouldn’t give Trump jail time for confidential records violations either.

[royamcr]

Trump is banking on his Supreme Court.

The stormy daniels thing isn't ridiculous, he broke campaign finance law and is part of the reason the orange fake fucktard cult leader was president...

[Salty Again]

... And YET - Trump is STILL the Republican front-runner
and AHEAD of Biden in many of the polls...

... Reckon THAT shows what America thinks of the indictments.

#### Salty

[royamcr]

Originally Posted by Tiny

That’s right, it means nothing. We live under a government of the lawyers, by the lawyers and for the lawyers. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. The Democrats want to put white businessmen (e.g. Trump) in jail. And the Republicans would disproportionately put young black men in jail for nonviolent violations related to a subject we don’t discuss here. It’s now a state jail felony to see a provider in Texas.

There’s a reason law professor and civil rights advocate Harvey Silverglate titled his book Three Felonies a Day. There are a ton of laws on the books, to enable prosecutors to put any person they want in jail, including Mother Teresa, if she were still alive.

Fuck the LAW. If I were dictator and Snowden resurfaced I’d put him in an ankle bracelet. And I wouldn’t give Trump jail time for confidential records violations either.

Calling Trump a businessman is a stretch. Most definitely a con man.

[royamcr]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... And YET - Trump is STILL the Republican front-runner
and AHEAD of Biden in many of the polls...

... Reckon THAT shows what America thinks of the indictments.

#### Salty

They are tied in the polls at this point.