I am a Indy but like obama

[KCJoe]

I know you didn't say that, but most Repubs I talk with think that everything would be fine if a Repub was in office.
Where do you think we'd be if duba's term ended this year instead of two year's ago?
Some architects I talk with say there are many projects on the books, but no one can get financing. Lack of lending is the biggest impediment to private construction atm. Public work? I have no idea when that will pick up again.

[lacrew_2000]

If Dubya was still in office, I imagine he would have shifted the $800 billion liability known as ARRA from spending to tax rebates and tax cuts. Seeing as most of ARRA has not been spent yet, it is arguable that this strategy would have had a more immediate impact.

[wellendowed1911]

If mCain were in office he two would have bailed out the banks- a lot of the economic policies that Obama passed i think McCain would have passed because it was basically a necessary evil. i don't think McCain would have passed any type of Health Reform. mCCain would be in the works with going to war with Iran.
In Bush were still in office we would have troops in Iran - based on some false intelligence like Iran is supporting the Taliban- actualy both the Bush and Obama administration have stated this lie and I say it's a lie because the Taliban is a radial Sunni sect that doesn't even recognize Shiites as true muslims so no way would they seek or get aid from Iran. Also, Iran was supplying the Northern Alliance with aid when they were fighting the Taliban so why now would the Iranians help the taliban??? Please don't give me the line that the enemy of my enemy is my friend bullshit.
Also, if anyone in the Bush administration had half a brain they would know that no way would Al-Queada or Osama work with Iraq- again Al-Queada and Osama are very conservative radical sect of the Sunni sect- whereas Saddam was a moderate secular sunni muslim and they mix like oil and water. For example Osama and Al-queada believe that woman should not hold any power- must always be covered in full veil- limited education- must be accompanied by their husband if leaving their home- whereas under Saddam he was a moderate- woman were not required to wear Burkas or Chadors- women In Iraq were encourage to go to school and become educated- the beliefs of Saddam and Osama were night and day- no way would they work with each other.
I still say that Obama was the better choice over McCain- Mccain wanted to keep Vush's tax break for the wealthiest when at one time he opposed it- right now the middle class need help.

[lacrew_2000]

"If mCain were in office he two would have bailed out the banks- a lot of the economic policies that Obama passed i think McCain would have passed"

You do know that Bush signed TARP into law...not Obama, right?

I actually think that Obama's only chance at re-election is to take military action against Iran...so he may bomb their enrichment facilities before 2012.

You do know that letting the Bush tax cuts expire does not equal a tax break for the middle class right? In fact, I think the child tax credit, which benefits the middle class is going away.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

"If mCain were in office he two would have bailed out the banks- a lot of the economic policies that Obama passed i think McCain would have passed"

You do know that Bush signed TARP into law...not Obama, right?

I actually think that Obama's only chance at re-election is to take military action against Iran...so he may bomb their enrichment facilities before 2012.

You do know that letting the Bush tax cuts expire does not equal a tax break for the middle class right? In fact, I think the child tax credit, which benefits the middle class is going away.

/do you realize that the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthy are a big factor in the rising defecit? The Bush tac cuts were a horrible decision- the population is getting older cost at the same time were going up and Bush instead of taking in more money he decided to give tax cuts. You don't have to be an economist to know that less money coming in means less money to spend on bills.
You stated that people were angry at Bush's 100 billion a year Medicare Part D plan- but can you give me a link to a rally where there were nasty signs aimed at Bush?? Or why were none of the Tea party supporters mad at Gov Romney signing a Bill that is a mirror image of Obamacare and requiring residents to buy into some plan- is Romney a socialist?
The big question that we all want answers to is that at the Tea Party- actually the acronym for TEA = Taxed Enough Already- besides the Sin Tax on Cigarrettes that is the only tax that got increased under Obama. now unless all those people at the Tea rally make over 250k a year which I seriously doubt- please give me one tax that Obama has raised on the middle class? Just One is all I asked. In fact, the IRS just released data that this year's avg return was way up from last years. Obama mentioned that he will impose a spending free- so can someone tell me WTF are the Tea party complaining about? hell the last great Republican President was Reagan and he raised the hell out of Taxes- Remember the Republican president after Reagan George H Bush? Remember his famous line:"read my lips no new taxes" and he raised Taxes, but the fact of the matter is Obama has not raised one cent of taxes on the middle class. Please don't tell me that your local property taxes went up because Obama has no control over those taxes.

[dirty dog]

The name given to the Tea party really does not reflect the purpose of the group. It used that name because the initial protest occured on Tax day April 15, someone made reference to the boston tea party and the name stuck and was then accepted by the membership. In reality the protest was directed at government expansion into areas which were once private and the perception that the government was trying to take control of the private sector. A lot of this anger began with Tarp which was signed by Bush which some believe was a bailout of the rich by the rich. This anger was then carried over to the auto industry bailout and how it was perceived to be rammed down the throats of america. The final straw to many was the introduction of the health care bill which had a government option, this was perceived as more government take over. This frustration I think is more directed to congress than the President by most people. It would be unfair for them to lay all the blame on Obama, but he just happened to be president when the pot boiled over. I personally think the tea party is misnamed and it true mission has been distorted. Many associate the tea party with the town hall protests and in most cases they were not connected. I know several tea party members, although I am not one, I will say that for those who attack it as a racist organization are misinformed as I know of at least 6 african americans and several latino's that are members and I know from them that there are significant numbers of minorities associated with the group. Are there bad apples in some chapters who have an agenda which is not part of the national agenda, yes, bit they are not representative of the group as a whole. I think the attacks on the tea party like the attack on Accorn is simply politics run amuk and not truly reprentative of either group.

By the way I am back, for those of you who PM'd me or left posts I appreicate it and look forward to more fun discourse.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

The name given to the Tea party really does not reflect the purpose of the group. It used that name because the initial protest occured on Tax day April 15, someone made reference to the boston tea party and the name stuck and was then accepted by the membership. In reality the protest was directed at government expansion into areas which were once private and the perception that the government was trying to take control of the private sector. A lot of this anger began with Tarp which was signed by Bush which some believe was a bailout of the rich by the rich. This anger was then carried over to the auto industry bailout and how it was perceived to be rammed down the throats of america. The final straw to many was the introduction of the health care bill which had a government option, this was perceived as more government take over. This frustration I think is more directed to congress than the President by most people. It would be unfair for them to lay all the blame on Obama, but he just happened to be president when the pot boiled over. I personally think the tea party is misnamed and it true mission has been distorted. Many associate the tea party with the town hall protests and in most cases they were not connected. I know several tea party members, although I am not one, I will say that for those who attack it as a racist organization are misinformed as I know of at least 6 african americans and several latino's that are members and I know from them that there are significant numbers of minorities associated with the group. Are there bad apples in some chapters who have an agenda which is not part of the national agenda, yes, bit they are not representative of the group as a whole. I think the attacks on the tea party like the attack on Accorn is simply politics run amuk and not truly reprentative of either group.

By the way I am back, for those of you who PM'd me or left posts I appreicate it and look forward to more fun discourse.

Good job on the history of the TEA party, but I honestly believe that 99.9% of the people at TEA rallies voted for Mccain and are just a far right wing of the GOP. i can count on 1 hand how many minorities thye have in there org- you surely can't tell me that the TEA party is a diversed group of Americans. I mean if 10,000 were at a rally and you tell me there were 6 AA and a couple of Latinos at the rally that is not diversed. Also, the TEA arty image- a lot of its media but a lot of it is the people at the rallies paint themselves as racist just based on the signs that they carry. The only sign that they haven't used is a sign that says Obama you are a N*GGER- I mean there are so many tasteless signs that it makes them look very bad and look like a hateful group. You are right at first they were mad at Congress but then they started focusing their attention on Obama and it will backfire. Obama has not raised taxes on the Middle Class- Obbama proposed a freezing on spending- Obama wants to use recovered TARP money and lend it out to small businesses and small banks- Obama wants to support off shore drilling and watch the news in a few days as the Dems are preparing a bill that would require Bank banks to to set aside money of their own to avoid another bail ut- there are some Republicans who are objecting to this bill and when they get exposed it will make those Republicans or rather prove those Republicans are on the side of Big Banks.

[Cheaper2buyit]

once again dog glad you didn't hide the tea guys are the repubs & poor that thought we would keep this country in check most are mad the the pres is black that is the point that nobody will touch alot of people are mad because HIS BLACK LETS BE REAL

[dirty dog]

"tell me there were 6 AA and a couple of Latinos at the rally that is not diversed."

I truley hoped you were smart enough to understand me, I know 6 AA and 2 latinos personally who belong to the group,. I do not know 10,000 tea party members, I could only speak of the one I know from the pool of associates and friends I have. As for my "history" lesson, you asked what their argument is and I explained it. As for the rest of your diatribe BLAH BLAHBLAH, your as bad as those on the right with your zealot us against them mentality. Perception is an interesting thing, if you want to perceive racisim in every sign you see you can, furthermore, I am sure you have failed to notice the signs at the accorn organized rally's bit since they dont meet your purpose their ignored. AND FOR THE LAST TIME, JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH YOU DOES NOT MAKE THEM A REPUBLICAN. I AM A CONSERVATIVE INDEPENDANT. CONSERVATIVE IS NOT THE DOMAIN OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THERE ARE CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS YOU KNOW.

"there are some Republicans who are objecting to this bill and when they get exposed it will make those Republicans or rather prove those Republicans are on the side of Big Banks."

Do you think you have uncovered some giant secret here. Its no secret that the Republican party supports buisnesses and capitalism, just as its no secret that Democrats support Unions.

[dirty dog]

Cheaper I disagree with you, I think that the message that the liberal media would like to put out there because it hides the true message that is trying to be put forth. If this is true then he would have never been elected, there are not enough blacks and liberals to have voted him into office, it took the vote of independents and crossover conservatives who bought into his ideas for him to be elected. I guess your calling me a liar when I tell you that I know of minorites who are friends and family members who belong to the tea partys. Since my wife is black I know a lot of black people. Those who make the claim that it is a racist organization dismiss minorites that belong to the group, why is that, I guess their not black if they belong to the tea party or they are black clan members, like that charactor on the Dave Chapelle show. Are their racists who hate him, yes there are a few, but I would hazard to guess that there are also a bunch of black racists in the Accord group. Racisim is a two way street, as a man in an interracial relationship I can assure you of that.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Cheaper I disagree with you, I think that the message that the liberal media would like to put out there because it hides the true message that is trying to be put forth. If this is true then he would have never been elected, there are not enough blacks and liberals to have voted him into office, it took the vote of independents and crossover conservatives who bought into his ideas for him to be elected. I guess your calling me a liar when I tell you that I know of minorites who are friends and family members who belong to the tea partys. Since my wife is black I know a lot of black people. Those who make the claim that it is a racist organization dismiss minorites that belong to the group, why is that, I guess their not black if they belong to the tea party or they are black clan members, like that charactor on the Dave Chapelle show. Are their racists who hate him, yes there are a few, but I would hazard to guess that there are also a bunch of black racists in the Accord group. Racisim is a two way street, as a man in an interracial relationship I can assure you of that.

If you don't thin k there's a large number and let me repeat a LARGE number of TEA party activist who are angry that Obama is Black than I got some ocean front property to seel you. Are you telling me in the last 10 years(counting Bush's 8 years) that Congress and Bush wasn't spending out of control? Bush came in office with a surplus and ran it up to a trillion dollar defecit- but where were the TEA party activist? TEA party wants less govt control and involvement in daily lives, but it's fact that the Govt expanded and got larger under Bush. Where were the TEA party activist? Two wars and a Medicare Part D prescription that are unpaid 4 no word from the TEA party? Tax breaks to the 2% most wealthy people in America- hmm pretty sure that doesn't represent the TEA party agenda- but again they were silent.Gas under Bush reached $4 a gallon in most states-jeez where were the activists? Many TEA party activist say they are Americans who believe in the Constituion- Bush supported wire taps and the Patriot Act which ignore your privacy rights granted in the Constiittion- gosh you would think the Tea party activist would have been outraged. I wonder if there are nay TEA party members in the State of Massachusets(s) because GOP one time and perhaps 2012 Presedential Candidate Mitt Romney signed a mirro image of ObamaCare into law in his state right down to the fact that it required everyone to have insurance- gosh are there no TEA party activist in Romney's state?
The bottom libe Stevie Wonder could see racism in that picture. It's ok when Bush fucked up this country- ran us into debt- violated constitutional wars- sent young americans into 2 wars one of them fake, but all of a sudden a President who inherited 99% of all the bullshit going right now has to take blame for it- even though he hasn't raised a single tax except the Cigarrette tac-hmmmm! Maybe it just so happens to be because he's black, but thank goodness there were enough honest white Americans who felt Obama was the right choice regardless of his color. Bottom line - watch Obama's crowd when he has rallies and compare them to the TEA part rallies- or better yet google or search youtube for THE GOP convention in 2008 and link it with the TEA party rallies this year and last year- they look so much a like- now compare it to the DNC convention in 2008 and see the contrast. At Obama rallies and the DNC convention- you had a phot shop of what America really looks like- all races in attendance- young, middle age and old- gay/lesbian/trans-gender straight- a true melting pot and true representation of America- on the other the TEA party and GOP- 99% white and that's fact. I am a conservative Independent as well- I have voted across party lines- yes Obama is very liberal, but if the GOP ever wants my vte- they had better start working in a Bipartisian manner and stop rejecting every Obama idea because he's in the opposite party- GOP has not offered any sound solutions- take a look at the current finance reform bill that Mcconnel is against- he will be exposed. Right now the GOP is seen as a White male dominated party- it's not diverse at all- Micheal Steele was put as Chariman just to change their image and he's doing horrible. The gOP aligning themselve with the TEA party is going to hurt them in November you watch- I have very conservative white male friends- who are no fan of Obama but believe the TEA party are bunch of inbreds- there words not mine.

[Omahan]

Please keep your comments on the topic and not each other. When you say you think the tea party does or doesn't like Obama that is discussing facts and opinions. When you say someone is dumb if they don't agree that is a personal attack. Let's keep this thread going.

[HeyMikie]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

Medicare - I know several doctors. The two major hospital systems in Topeka require their general practicioners to take on 10% of their patients as Medicare patients. They do this as a public service to the community...the reimbursement rates are lower than their cost.

I currently know two people who have reached medicare age, but cannot find a doctor, because of poor reimbursement rates.

The healthcare bill is actually 'deficit neutral' as a result of diverting $500 billion in Medicare collections from medicare to the healthcare funding.

Please don't use Medicare as a success story. It is actually a harbinger of what to expect - private insurance companies will not be able to compete with Obamacare and close shop. Doctors won't get rewarded for going through medical school with Mercedes and boats...and students will become accoutants and lawyers instead.

I suspect they are required to accept 10% of Medicaid patients. Medicaid, a program for the poor ,administered by the states, has dismal payment percentages.

Medicare, the federal program, pays reasonable amounts. In fact, their published fee schedule is the standard used by most health insurance companies.

If Medicare for everyone had been adopted (H.R. 676) then there would no longer be a Medicaid program, as everyone would be covered under Medicare.

[lacrew_2000]

"You don't have to be an economist to know that less money coming in means less money to spend on bills."

Laffer curve. Our only chance to get out of this mess is to grow the economy.....it is not a z
ero sum game. Are you claiming tax revenues declined during the Bush years? Check out the Tax Policy Center.

[john_galt]

Let me remind you fine gentlemen and ladies that many of the people who make up the TEA Party also protested Bush's spending, his attempt at amnesty, and his nomination of Harriet Miers. You'll have to ask the mainstream media why they didn't cover events so thoroughly. Admittedly the outrage was less but it was there as I remember being in the middle of it. Now it has exploded into a movement and it exploded before Obama did anything. It was directed at the government in general, congress in particular, and was a warning to the new president to be moderate. We know what happened to the "moderate" new president and his handlers in the congress and senate. The TEA party people (according to the NYT consists of republicans, democrats, and independents) are now actively angry at Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and any republican that forgets their oath of office to "preserve the Constitution".