Trump and the anthem

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Austin Dude

Maybe the election woke something inside you that you didn't know you had.

Kapow! Libtard logic strikes again! Not only is denial proof of guilt, it also means you really don't know yourself or you aren't being honest with yourself. Give it up, gfe. There's no escape from the race card.

Originally Posted by Austin Dude

You can hate a demographic as a whole but like a singular person from that demographic.

Hahahaha... millsy has had this convo many times before. It's well-trod territory for him. He knows how to play the race card skillfully. He has an answer to every possible reason you think you're not a racist. If you were to say, "I like [_____ demographic], I just don't like [_____ person from that demographic]" he would still call you a racist for hating a member of that demographic. There's no escape from the race card.

Originally Posted by Austin Dude

You're the ignorant bigot and a fucking racist.

Oh, my. Now you're a fucking racist, gfe! Pack your bags. Time to ship you off to libtard re-education camp!

Who's next? Shelby Steele?

[lustylad]

We're on to you, millsy. We understand you a lot better than you think you understand us.


Why the Left Can’t Let Go of Racism

Liberals sell innocence from America’s past. If bigotry is pronounced dead, the racket is over.

By Shelby Steele
Aug. 27, 2017 5:15 p.m. ET

Is America racist? It used to be that racism meant the actual enforcement of bigotry—the routine implementation of racial inequality everywhere in public and private life. Racism was a tyranny and an oppression that dehumanized—animalized—the “other.” It was a social malignancy, yet it carried the authority of natural law, as if God himself had dispassionately ordained it.

Today Americans know that active racism is no longer the greatest barrier to black and minority advancement. Since the 1960s other pathologies, even if originally generated by racism, have supplanted it. White racism did not shoot more than 4,000 people last year in Chicago. To the contrary, America for decades now—with much genuine remorse—has been recoiling from the practice of racism and has gained a firm intolerance for what it once indulged.

But Americans don’t really trust the truth of this. It sounds too self-exonerating. Talk of “structural” and “systemic” racism conditions people to think of it as inexorable, predestined. So even if bigotry and discrimination have lost much of their menace, Americans nevertheless yearn to know whether or not we are a racist people.

A staple on cable news these days is the “racial incident,” which stands as a referendum on this question. Today there is Charlottesville. Yesterday there were the deaths of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Freddie Gray and others. Don’t they reveal an irrepressible racism in American life? At the news conferences surrounding these events there are always the Al Sharpton clones, if not the man himself, ready to spin the tale of black tragedy and white bigotry.

Such people—and the American left generally—have a hunger for racism that is almost craven. The writer Walker Percy once wrote of the “sweetness at the horrid core of bad news.” It’s hard to witness the media’s oddly exhilarated reaction to, say, the death of Trayvon Martin without applying Percy’s insight. A black boy is dead. But not all is lost. It looks like racism.

What makes racism so sweet? Today it empowers. Racism was once just racism, a terrible bigotry that people nevertheless learned to live with, if not as a necessary evil then as an inevitable one. But the civil-rights movement, along with independence movements around the world, changed that. The ’60s recast racism in the national consciousness as an incontrovertible sin, the very worst of all social evils.

Suddenly America was in moral trouble. The open acknowledgment of the nation’s racist past had destroyed its moral authority, and affirming democratic principles and the rule of law was not a sufficient response. Only a strict moral accounting could restore legitimacy.

Thus, redemption—paying off the nation’s sins—became the moral imperative of a new political and cultural liberalism. President Lyndon Johnson turned redemption into a kind of activism: the Great Society, the War on Poverty, school busing, liberalized welfare policies, affirmative action, and so on.

This liberalism always projects moral idealisms (integration, social justice, diversity, inclusion, etc.) that have the ring of redemption. What is political correctness, if not essentially redemptive speech? Soon liberalism had become a cultural identity that offered Americans a way to think of themselves as decent people. To be liberal was to be good.

Here we see redemptive liberalism’s great ingenuity: It seized proprietorship over innocence itself. It took on the power to grant or deny moral legitimacy across society. Liberals were free of the past while conservatives longed to resurrect it, bigotry and all. What else could “Make America Great Again” mean? In this way redemptive liberalism reshaped the moral culture of the entire Western world with sweeping idealisms like “diversity,” which are as common today in Europe as in America.

So today there is sweetness at the news of racism because it sets off the hunt for innocence and power. Racism and bigotry generally are the great driving engines of modern American liberalism. Even a remote hint of racism can trigger a kind of moral entrepreneurism.

The “safe spaces” for minority students on university campuses are actually redemptive spaces for white students and administrators looking for innocence and empowerment. As minorities in these spaces languish in precious self-absorption, their white classmates, high on the idea of their own wonderful “tolerance,” whistle past the very segregated areas they are barred from.

America’s moral fall in the ’60s made innocence of the past an obsession. Thus liberalism invited people to internalize innocence, to become synonymous with it—even to fight for it as they would for an ideology. But to be innocent there must be an evil from which to be free. The liberal identity must have racism, lest it lose innocence and the power it conveys.

The great problem for conservatives is that they lack the moral glibness to compete with liberalism’s “innocence.” But today there are signs of what I have called race fatigue. People are becoming openly cynical toward the left’s moral muscling with racism. Add to this liberalism’s monumental failure to come even close to realizing any of its beautiful idealisms, and the makings of a new conservative mandate become clearer. As idealism was the left’s political edge, shouldn’t realism now be the right’s? Reality as the informing vision—and no more wrestling with innocence.

Mr. Steele, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, is author of “Shame: How America’s Past Sins Have Polarized Our Country” (Basic Books, 2015).

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the...ism-1503868512

[Austin Dude]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Kapow! Libtard logic strikes again! Not only is denial proof of guilt, it also means you really don't know yourself or you aren't being honest with yourself. Give it up, gfe. There's no escape from the race card.



Hahahaha... millsy has had this convo many times before. It's well-trod territory for him. He knows how to play the race card skillfully. He has an answer to every possible reason you think you're not a racist. If you were to say, "I like [_____ demographic], I just don't like [_____ person from that demographic]" he would still call you a racist for hating a member of that demographic. There's no escape from the race card.




Oh, my. Now you're a fucking racist, gfe! Pack your bags. Time to ship you off to libtard re-education camp!

Who's next? Shelby Steele?

Dumbass. People he said at one point he thought knew him well, they said he is a racist. It's not just me. And if he doesn't think he's a racist or if he doesn't care that people on here call him one, why did he post a defense to it? He could have just left it alone. Yeah I've had to deal with a lot of racists, on here and in real life. And a few of them didn't realize they were racists until it's too late. I was just trying to save your boy gfeflunkie from going a darker path but his denial is too great.

[Austin Dude]

Originally Posted by lustylad

We're on to you, millsy. We understand you a lot better than you think you understand us.

Way to go. You found one African American who wrote something that you agreed with. What about the majority of African Americans who don't feel this way? Oh I guess they don't matter because it goes against your argument.

[Observing]

Trump sits, talks through song lowering the flag at military base amid NFL anthem controversy.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tr...rticle/2637296

Retreat is one of the only times/places where actually disrespecting the flag is even a real thing.

4 U.S. Code § 9 - Conduct during hoisting, lowering or passing of flag
During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passing in a parade or in review, all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes."

"if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder"

Does this include the dead possum atop the complainer in chief's head?


Just in case anyone was wondering what Trump and Hannity should have done if they were real Americans.

[Austin Ellen]

My favorite so far is ---" I'm more enlightened than you" this usually comes from the crazy people on the far left.
I won't name names but they know who they are.

Originally Posted by winn dixie

pretty girl, where did you go to school?? or did you??? Being a conservative Reagan Republican I will say it is sad the shape of the country is in. Liberals are like cancer. They grow, devour everything in sight, killing their own livelihood and surroundings, and are completely worthless.. Today if you do not agree with a liberals viewpoint you are called one of two things..
1. Racist
2. intolerant

Liberals use these words when they are losing, and cannot make a valid statement.. It is very sad!!
In a liberals mind being a racist or intolerant, is far worse than being a traitor, thief, liar, murderer or drug dealer.. This is beyond any comprehension....
After being called a racist or intolerant, liberals use their tired old tactics of demonstrating and marching. Most are paid demonstrators, others are just non-working drain on the economy "what can YOU do for me types"! Then they use the liberal media [ Hollywood, facebook .national news, social media] to try and smear people who they feel are racist or intolerant!! They do not care if these people lose their jobs, family, money, or what have yah!! All they want is to damn near tar and feather people they do not agree with.. A liberals viewpoint is!!
1. if you are not a liberal
2. if you are a republican
Then you are racist and intolerant-- I say FUCK YOU!!!

[Austin Ellen]

You are such a dumb ass.

Originally Posted by Observing

Trump sits, talks through song lowering the flag at military base amid NFL anthem controversy.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tr...rticle/2637296

Retreat is one of the only times/places where actually disrespecting the flag is even a real thing.

4 U.S. Code § 9 - Conduct during hoisting, lowering or passing of flag
During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passing in a parade or in review, all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes."

"if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder"

Does this include the dead possum atop the complainer in chief's head?


Just in case anyone was wondering what Trump and Hannity should have done if they were real Americans.

[Austin Ellen]

Dayum Lusty --- you are turning me on!

Originally Posted by lustylad

We're on to you, millsy. We understand you a lot better than you think you understand us.


Why the Left Can’t Let Go of Racism

Liberals sell innocence from America’s past. If bigotry is pronounced dead, the racket is over.

By Shelby Steele
Aug. 27, 2017 5:15 p.m. ET

Is America racist? It used to be that racism meant the actual enforcement of bigotry—the routine implementation of racial inequality everywhere in public and private life. Racism was a tyranny and an oppression that dehumanized—animalized—the “other.” It was a social malignancy, yet it carried the authority of natural law, as if God himself had dispassionately ordained it.

Today Americans know that active racism is no longer the greatest barrier to black and minority advancement. Since the 1960s other pathologies, even if originally generated by racism, have supplanted it. White racism did not shoot more than 4,000 people last year in Chicago. To the contrary, America for decades now—with much genuine remorse—has been recoiling from the practice of racism and has gained a firm intolerance for what it once indulged.

But Americans don’t really trust the truth of this. It sounds too self-exonerating. Talk of “structural” and “systemic” racism conditions people to think of it as inexorable, predestined. So even if bigotry and discrimination have lost much of their menace, Americans nevertheless yearn to know whether or not we are a racist people.

A staple on cable news these days is the “racial incident,” which stands as a referendum on this question. Today there is Charlottesville. Yesterday there were the deaths of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Freddie Gray and others. Don’t they reveal an irrepressible racism in American life? At the news conferences surrounding these events there are always the Al Sharpton clones, if not the man himself, ready to spin the tale of black tragedy and white bigotry.

Such people—and the American left generally—have a hunger for racism that is almost craven. The writer Walker Percy once wrote of the “sweetness at the horrid core of bad news.” It’s hard to witness the media’s oddly exhilarated reaction to, say, the death of Trayvon Martin without applying Percy’s insight. A black boy is dead. But not all is lost. It looks like racism.

What makes racism so sweet? Today it empowers. Racism was once just racism, a terrible bigotry that people nevertheless learned to live with, if not as a necessary evil then as an inevitable one. But the civil-rights movement, along with independence movements around the world, changed that. The ’60s recast racism in the national consciousness as an incontrovertible sin, the very worst of all social evils.

Suddenly America was in moral trouble. The open acknowledgment of the nation’s racist past had destroyed its moral authority, and affirming democratic principles and the rule of law was not a sufficient response. Only a strict moral accounting could restore legitimacy.

Thus, redemption—paying off the nation’s sins—became the moral imperative of a new political and cultural liberalism. President Lyndon Johnson turned redemption into a kind of activism: the Great Society, the War on Poverty, school busing, liberalized welfare policies, affirmative action, and so on.

This liberalism always projects moral idealisms (integration, social justice, diversity, inclusion, etc.) that have the ring of redemption. What is political correctness, if not essentially redemptive speech? Soon liberalism had become a cultural identity that offered Americans a way to think of themselves as decent people. To be liberal was to be good.

Here we see redemptive liberalism’s great ingenuity: It seized proprietorship over innocence itself. It took on the power to grant or deny moral legitimacy across society. Liberals were free of the past while conservatives longed to resurrect it, bigotry and all. What else could “Make America Great Again” mean? In this way redemptive liberalism reshaped the moral culture of the entire Western world with sweeping idealisms like “diversity,” which are as common today in Europe as in America.

So today there is sweetness at the news of racism because it sets off the hunt for innocence and power. Racism and bigotry generally are the great driving engines of modern American liberalism. Even a remote hint of racism can trigger a kind of moral entrepreneurism.

The “safe spaces” for minority students on university campuses are actually redemptive spaces for white students and administrators looking for innocence and empowerment. As minorities in these spaces languish in precious self-absorption, their white classmates, high on the idea of their own wonderful “tolerance,” whistle past the very segregated areas they are barred from.

America’s moral fall in the ’60s made innocence of the past an obsession. Thus liberalism invited people to internalize innocence, to become synonymous with it—even to fight for it as they would for an ideology. But to be innocent there must be an evil from which to be free. The liberal identity must have racism, lest it lose innocence and the power it conveys.

The great problem for conservatives is that they lack the moral glibness to compete with liberalism’s “innocence.” But today there are signs of what I have called race fatigue. People are becoming openly cynical toward the left’s moral muscling with racism. Add to this liberalism’s monumental failure to come even close to realizing any of its beautiful idealisms, and the makings of a new conservative mandate become clearer. As idealism was the left’s political edge, shouldn’t realism now be the right’s? Reality as the informing vision—and no more wrestling with innocence.

Mr. Steele, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, is author of “Shame: How America’s Past Sins Have Polarized Our Country” (Basic Books, 2015).

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the...ism-1503868512

[zerodark13]

Being against NFL players kneeling for the anthem might not make you racist, but it definitely makes you seem un-American, not to mention ignorant on many subjects. Kneeling is probably the most respectful action one can take in any situation; you demanding fealty to an anthem would definitely make you quite welcome under totalitarian regimes like in North Korea.

[Austin Ellen]

Another dumb ass. As a child of a father who had the American flag draped over his coffin and who's father fought in 3 wars, who loved his boys and his country - that flag deserves respect. The anthem deserves respect. You sir - are the one who is ignorant.

Originally Posted by zerodark13

Being against NFL players kneeling for the anthem might not make you racist, but it definitely makes you in-American, and ignorant on many subjects. Kneeling is probably the most respectful action one can take in any situation; you demanding fealty to an anthem would definitely make you quite welcome under totalitarian regimes.

[zerodark13]

Originally Posted by Austin Ellen

Another dumb ass. As a child of a father who had the American flag draped over his coffin and who's father fought in 3 wars, who loved his boys and his country - that flag deserves respect. The anthem deserves respect. You sir - are the one who is ignorant.

I’m a dumbass who served my country, who bled on a fucking battlefield. Have you? No. All you have are misinformed opinions that expose both your hypocrisy and and your ignorance. That flag stands for FREEDOM, you fucking moron. Freedom to either pay homage to said flag or NOT. If you can’t understand that, I can’t help you; just please stop playing the dead soldier card, unless you’ve had your best friend get killed while you were next to them, it rings false. Save your bullshit for someone who hasn’t woken up in a fucking hospital in Germany after getting shot in Afghanistan. People like you make me sick, draping yourself in a flag you don’t truly respect and revere, because only YOUR beliefs matter. Go fuck yourself.

Oh, and you know how the soldiers at your father’s funeral presented the flag that had draped his coffin to the family? By KNEELING, out of respect.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Austin Dude

Dumbass. People he said at one point he thought knew him well, they said he is a racist. It's not just me. And if he doesn't think he's a racist or if he doesn't care that people on here call him one, why did he post a defense to it? He could have just left it alone.

Hahahaha... you've got all angles covered, dontcha millsy? If he hadn't defended himself, you would have taken his silence as a tacit admission of guilt. And when he does defend himself, you're ready to twist and distort his answers (e.g. by dismissing an 18-year marriage as "dating") - because you've heard them all before. Either way, you feel smug because you have him on the defensive.

Meanwhile, you're either blissfully unaware of, or don't care, how badly you're damaging your own cause. When you lower the bar so much, you cheapen the meaning of the term "racist". By tossing the word around so freely and casually, you lose credibility and the label loses its stigma. Then when you encounter true ugly racism and try to point it out, nobody believes you anymore.

It's obvious you can't debate. Smart debaters don't impugn someone with a label such as "racist" unless they can back it up. You made the charge - the burden of proof is on you, not on the accused. If you can't dig up any old posts by gfejunkie and explain what makes them racist, then you lose. All you've done is wallow in name-calling. It may make you feel better, but it also makes you look shallow, inarticulate, logically challenged and incapable of advancing an argument.

Oh, and the fact that he admitted having friends who started calling him a racist after the election isn't proof of anything, unless you know why they did it. Defending Trump from hysterical and unreasonable libtard attacks doesn't make anyone a racist.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Austin Dude

Way to go. You found one African American who wrote something that you agreed with. What about the majority of African Americans who don't feel this way? Oh I guess they don't matter because it goes against your argument.

Did you read Shelby? He's an intellectual, so I can see why you would have trouble comprehending him. Fyi, there are plenty of other AA scholars out there who hold similar views. Funny how you claim to value diversity - but not diversity of opinion.

[Austin Dude]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Hahahaha... you've got all angles covered, dontcha millsy? If he hadn't defended himself, you would have taken his silence as a tacit admission of guilt. And when he does defend himself, you're ready to twist and distort his answers (e.g. by dismissing an 18-year marriage as "dating") - because you've heard them all before. Either way, you feel smug because you have him on the defensive.

Meanwhile, you're either blissfully unaware of, or don't care, how badly you're damaging your own cause. When you lower the bar so much, you cheapen the meaning of the term "racist". By tossing the word around so freely and casually, you lose credibility and the label loses its stigma. Then when you encounter true ugly racism and try to point it out, nobody believes you anymore.

It's obvious you can't debate. Smart debaters don't impugn someone with a label such as "racist" unless they can back it up. You made the charge - the burden of proof is on you, not on the accused. If you can't dig up any old posts by gfejunkie and explain what makes them racist, then you lose. All you've done is wallow in name-calling. It may make you feel better, but it also makes you look shallow, inarticulate, logically challenged and incapable of advancing an argument.

Oh, and the fact that he admitted having friends who started calling him a racist after the election isn't proof of anything, unless you know why they did it. Defending Trump from hysterical and unreasonable libtard attacks doesn't make anyone a racist.

He put himself on the defensive and I definitely pointed out that plenty of racists have been attracted to other races, so the defense of dating, marrying or having a black friend are all pointless if that’s all you got.

Only an ignorant bigot would say that racism loses its stigma and the meaning is cheapen. How about this, whenever people like you want to choose not to believe people calling out racism, just go look at history. Look at slavery, Jim Crow, the Holocaust, apartheid, etc. If you truly are that uncaring for racism that calling out a guy who is racist on a board turns you off, you never cared about it. Racism only gets old to those who don’t care that it happens. All racists need to be called on their wrongs.

And you’re a smart debater? You make straw man arguments, insinuate what you want to argue and think you’ve won. You are wrong and never admit it. You are not a debater, you’re a joke. The burden of proof isn’t on me. I’m not the racist. You don’t dictate the rules of comments on this board. If people need to see the posts this racist makes, they can look it up. I don’t have to post them. I’m not going to go back and look through, he posted things that has given more than one person the feeling he is racist, that’s enough for me. That and he’s friends feeling the same way.

As for those friends. Do you not see the flaw in your comment about his friends? Y’all can’t say he’s not a racist since y’all don’t know what changed their minds. They probably heard something that set the alarms off. You don’t know. And defending Trump doesn’t necessarily make you a racist, but defending things that he says that are racist makes you a racist or a person who’s ok with racists. Add that to his posts and yep he’s a racist.

[Austin Dude]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Did you read Shelby? He's an intellectual, so I can see why you would have trouble comprehending him. Fyi, there are plenty of other AA scholars out there who hold similar views. Funny how you claim to value diversity - but not diversity of opinion.

Yes I read him. I actually looked up other things he said and what his brother has written too. See I have no issue with reading or comprehending. My issue is you are using Steele and his view as a defense. Yet that’s the view of an extra minority of a population that’s already the minority. So you’re going against what a majority of the African American population believes because it doesn’t suit your viewpoint. That’s the issue. You’re treating an opinion like gospel. That’s weak even for you.

And since you like black intellectuals so much here you go:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...rticle/537909/

Doubt you well read that though. Even though you want everyone to read your posts by people who agree with you. But why would you want the opinion of a black guy who doesn’t think what you want him to think.