NFL and Houston Texans Superthread: Are we ready for some football?

[One-Eyed Willy]

Originally Posted by bigtex

OK, let's take it from the top one more time, shall we? The general's ratings had absolutely nothing to do with which player was the 2011 "most valuable player." It was nothing more than the generals personal ratings on which player had the most value to the (Texans) organization as they move toward next season.

It was NOT, I repeat NOT, a 2011 Houston Texans Most Valuable Player award!

Geez, why is that so difficult to understand?

I guess you missed it bro!.. Perhaps I should have worded it differently. OK..

If the players rate Cushing MVP 2011, will he or will he not be the reigning TEAM MVP for next year? HE WILL.. MVP as in voted the Most Valuable Player.. Maybe I'm wrong but as I read it, the Generals post is a prediction as to who will be the TEAM MVP next year... AND I think we all agree next year's team will closely resemble that of this year's team right? Therefore I'm introducing a new argument that the reigning MVP (Cush) will repeat as Team MVP 2012 and you, the general, and myself will have it all wrong. Got it?

Or am I still wrong to think "the most valuable rating going in to next season" is the same as saying who will be the most valuable player at the end of next season?... The poor choice of words as in "the most valuable going into next season" doesn't really clarify unless your talking about contracts and training camp? Then I'd say NONE!! It should be a GM/Coach's poll... Or if it has to be players, it would be Mario Williams, his $$value$$ is THE TOPIC going into next season.. However, if I got it right and you and the General are predicting Schaub will be the Texans' MVP of 2012... I HOPE YOUR RIGHT!!.. but I just don't think so.. OK.. shall we move on?

Anyway though I discredit the General for that (singing) "picture pages, picture pages, time to get your picture pages, time to get your crayons and your pencils....." post.. Well, at least that's what it reminded me of... Just take the General's list, substitute names and numbers of Bill Cosby's pics replace the names to those of the players on General's list.. And you get Great fun!! & much more of an entertainment value... Hell, I bet the General was smokin them tweeds, watching Picture Pages and was trying to entertain himself as the Texans' SB hopes came to a screeching halt... The article was the inbred child coming about as a result...

However, reading over his comments from what was posted in his live chat bought me back into his affections.

Chat rewind: McClain says Texans need to knock Mario's socks off with an offer

Don't let the enticing headline fool you though. If you can read between the lines, the General sees it clear as day... Bye Bye Mario

[One-Eyed Willy]

Boardman... Nice post! Hope ya don't mind if I break it down and add a little catnip to it..

1st off I agree with one thing.... without Kube's there would be no Foster!! Hell, without Slayton's fumblitis there may not even be a Foster.

Why undrafted?? His college career took a bad blow his senior year. His rush yrds dropped off dramatically and he had untimely fumbles. To top it off, he missed the combine due to a pulled hammy..

What got him off the practice squad?? besides Slayton's Fumblitis, work ethic.. His brother is a sports trainer and when not on the field, his bro was whooping a fully committed Arian into the best shape of his life. Kubes saw the improvement, took notice, and rode his ass hard in practice to see what he was made of. In 2009 while Shaub and Dre were dominating the pass attack, Kubes tested the waters and put Arian in for the last few games.

I first took notice at the '09 season finale vs. the Pats, watching Arian run for 119 YDS, 2 TD on 20 carries. I remember leaving Reliant thinking, who the fuck is this guy and rushed off as a Jets fan as with a W, they'd get us in the playoffs. Needles to say Jets lost, but Arian showed us all who he was the next reg. season game at the 2010 opener breaking over 200yrds on the Smufs (Colts). No matter what he did/does after that, he will always be one of my fav Texans

Originally Posted by boardman

I just think there are plenty of backs out there with speed and coachability that could step in and learn the system and be a standout back in the NFL under this system.

I disagree to a point. Being a product of the system and buying into it got him on the field. The intangibles like elusiveness, vision, STRONG cuts, deceptive speed, great hands (out of the back field or running routes at the slot), and being able to limit fumbles, is what sets him apart. There was a loooooooonnnnng list of RB's Kube's ran through before he was able to spit shine a turd into a diamond. Remember Green? He was supposedly a proven RB that would be an instant fit. What a cap-eating bust he turned out to be.. Tate is a valuable #2 and can rack up tough yards vs softer defenses and can hammer out violent yards vs more stout defensses. However, he is not nearly as versatile as Foster racking up those all-purpose yards. IMHO

Originally Posted by boardman

Wade's system is completely different. He adapts his system to make full use of the talent he has within his scheme. MW has all the tools to be a great player and I think that Wade can put him in the position that will make the most of his talents and allow the other players around him to be better as well.

There is no doubt that Brooks Reed had a phenomenal year but Brooks Reed is no Mario Williams. Imagine what they could have accomplished together if Mario had been in the rotation while Wade was moving Reed, Barwin, Watt and Cushing around. Hell you never knew where those guys were going to line up. Throw MW into the mix and it is a QB's worst nightmare.

My point is this, if we can only keep one then I think it should be MW for the reasons stated above.

I agree (borrowing from Satin) with 99.9% with what you stated.

To add to it, IF MW can stay healthy.. I believe he could become one of the best pass rusher's of all time under Wade. Lets be real here. MW is no D.Ware, nor is he a Reggie White or Lawrence Taylor. He has been good, not great. However, if any coach could help him turn his game into the league's best, I believe its right here under Wade Phillips. If he wishes, and commits to doing so, I'd love to see it. However, that's not the concern right now. The concern is (singing) moneymoneymoney, moneyy, MONEEAY!

Texans would have to make controversial cuts, players would have to cut their salaries, and Mario would have to buy in at wholesale. OK. think about this, lets say we do all of the above and the injury bug bites or Mario under-performs. If that happens, I believe its a recipe for disaster and shit could hit the fan. Players thinking "I sacrificed 2mil for this?" Mario thinking "I sacraficed 20mil for this?" IDK, I could be wrong, but though he could be prone for Greatness, Mario is HIGH RISK!!!

Oh boardman, there is a new cat making headlines going into the NFL combine this weekend.

Some say, he can run a 40yd-dash in 3 sec flat... Some say, his vertical cannot be measured as there is no machine tall enough to accommodate... Some say, he once batted down ALL pass attempts in a single game... Getting ready for draft day, he tweeted: "I only look forward to join my cousins; either the Panthers, the Jaguars, or the Bengals."... Speaking of his twitter account, it is the only one in existence that has no birds.... After loosing a lawsuit against him, Twitter announced, "We are aware that our birds are somehow disappearing when others Tweet him. We assure your account is safe, but unfortunately, at this time, we have no evidence as to where are birds go when they disappear. We promise a timely resolution and will keep you updated once we fully understand the matter."




He is... The Combine Cat:

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by One-Eyed Willy

I guess you missed it bro!..

No, it wasn't me who missed it. It was you!

I understood the meaning all along!

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by One-Eyed Willy

MW is no D.Ware, nor is he a Reggie White or Lawrence Taylor. He has been good, not great. However, if any coach could help him turn his game into the league's best, I believe its right here under Wade Phillips. If he wishes, and commits to doing so, I'd love to see it. However, that's not the concern right now. The concern is (singing) moneymoneymoney, moneyy, MONEEAY!

Excellent point! However, I would change the good to a very good, but not great pass rusher. (Sort of reminds you of someone with the talent level of Schaub, with more upside potential. Doesn't it?)

With that said, what is often overlooked about Mario's game is that he is excellent against the run. But those numbers do not show up in the stats, like rushing the passer does! Another thing that does not show up in the stats, (as boardman previously pointed out) is that other teams normally double team Mario which means someone else is free. That is not a bad thing, especially when that someone else happens to be individuals with the talent levels of Connor Barwin or J.J. Watt!

As for Mario not being D. Ware, Lawrence Tayloir or Reggie White. Wow, you're comparing him to some pretty damn elite company. But your point is absolutely correct. What you failed to mention is that he is the closest to those elite 3 that is on the current Texans roster. He is still the one DL/LB on the current Texans roster with the most upside. Will he be a Texan in 2012? Only if he is willing to take a significant pay cut. I might be in the minority but I am still holding out hope that Rick will find a way to get 'er done!

[One-Eyed Willy]

OK BT, rather than getting into a pissing match over where Schaub should be ranked amongst his piers, I believe I have made my case about Foster and Cush being front runners for nxt year's team MVP. If Mario stays and lives up to the hype, he could be in the conversation as well. However, I wish to leave the debate and hope that you and John McClain are right about Schaub. I just don't think so.... #movingon

Originally Posted by bigtex

Excellent point! However, I would change the good to a very good, but not great pass rusher. (Sort of reminds you of someone with the talent level of Schaub, with more upside potential. Doesn't it?)

Thanks, but "really good" is reserved for when he's healthy. In 2007 Mario recorded team record 14 sacks(still standing). In 2008 and 2009, he earned Pro Bowl Honors. In 2010, he did not live up to "Super Mario" standards as he played the majority of the season with a nagging groin injury. I'd often see him grimace in pain and it was obvious he couldn't make those back shoulder cuts like he could in previous years. (I think this is what Satin was referring to as him looking nonchalant.) Playing at 100% he's neck-n-neck with today's Cushing as defensive MVP. If he stays, and plays at 100% for 16 games, its likely he will set a new franchise sack record.

Yeah I'll go along with the Schaub comment too--especially with MW having more upside potential. I don't doubt that Schaub is talented, but the major consensus is whether or not he can capitalize in big games. I think we know what we will get from Schaub, but to make due on any "potential" next year will be for him to capitalize in close games<-consistently. But you know BT, If Schaub doesn't get his extension for 2013+, this whole issue may be replayed over again in the next offseason but with Schuab's name in the headlines as a "keep-or-cut" and what his "price tag" could be. IDK whether you thought of it that far ahead, but its quite possible signing Mario to a LT deal could ultimately send Schaub packing. Be careful what you wish for!--is all I'm saying.

Originally Posted by bigtex

Another thing that does not show up in the stats, (as boardman previously pointed out) is that other teams normally double team Mario which means someone else is free. That is not a bad thing, especially when that someone else happens to be individuals with the talent levels of Connor Barwin or J.J. Watt!

Yup. Remember this:

Originally Posted by One-Eyed Willy

Why better with him?
I won't go into detail as we already have but the main argument is that although Reed plays great, Mario commands double teams. Barwin may command double teams next year as well. In most cases that would leave Watt and Ninja 1-1. So for the opposing O-line, there is no answer unless you got a mobile elite QB and/or top tier rush attack.

Originally Posted by bigtex

As for Mario not being D. Ware, Lawrence Tayloir or Reggie White. Wow, you're comparing him to some pretty damn elite company. But your point is absolutely correct. What you failed to mention is that he is the closest to those elite 3 that is on the current Texans roster. He is still the one DL/LB on the current Texans roster with the most upside. Will he be a Texan in 2012? Only if he is willing to take a significant pay cut. I might be in the minority but I am still holding out hope that Rick will find a way to get 'er done!

The reason I threw the names out there is because he will likely be demanding a similar contract those as those elite rushers and may even have bigger figures than Julius Peppers. And for what I "failed to mention" I think goes with out saying.
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OK now from the General that I know, a very good point was made about what it would take to keep Mario, Foster, and Meyers.
It would not only take Mario and the FO to agree on terms at a "discounted rate", but additionally it would be a team commitment as players will be asked to renegotiate their current contracts to adjust for the cap. Also, the Texans would have to make some controversial cuts to make room as well.

The underlining question is: Will Mario's teammates want him back badly enough to accept a cut in their salary?

Also the General gave me a good perspective on Foster's market vs. Mario's market

Foster's Market
The General stated that he believes the teams willing to target Foster would be playoff teams like GB and NE that can afford to loose a 1st Rd draft pick and are in the market for a premiere RB. They could get him by offering up a front loaded deal that the Texans simply couldn't match no matter how bad they want to keep him.

Mario's Market
Its no secret that if Mario hits the market he comes with a huge price tag. In other words, only BAD TEAMS could afford him.

With that in mind, I ask you fellers, this...
What would cause you (as a Texans fan) more pain: Mario struggling to make playoffs on a bad-average team as the Texans could easily remain a top 5 Defense? Or Foster playing in the SB on a different team perhaps even with an elite QB??

From years past the Texans usually begin the madness the 1st 2 weeks of March...

[boardman]

Originally Posted by One-Eyed Willy

Oh boardman, there is a new cat making headlines going into the NFL combine this weekend.

Some say, he can run a 40yd-dash in 3 sec flat... Some say, his vertical cannot be measured as there is no machine tall enough to accommodate... Some say, he once batted down ALL pass attempts in a single game... Getting ready for draft day, he tweeted: "I only look forward to join my cousins; either the Panthers, the Jaguars, or the Bengals."... Speaking of his twitter account, it is the only one in existence that has no birds.... After loosing a lawsuit against him, Twitter announced, "We are aware that our birds are somehow disappearing when others Tweet him. We assure your account is safe, but unfortunately, at this time, we have no evidence as to where are birds go when they disappear. We promise a timely resolution and will keep you updated once we fully understand the matter."




He is... The Combine Cat:

Fucking Awesome

[Guest040616]

As I have stated repeatedly, there are a few Schaub haters in Houston. Fortunately not many! Since I now spend most of the work week in Austin, I no longer have much access to the Houston local television news and radio stations. However, I do spend considerable time watching the NFL Network and listenting to the Sirius Network's NFL channel on the radio. It is apparent to me that the national press thinks much more of Schaub than the few Schaub haters who live in my hometown.

It is equally apparent that there is one native Houstonian who sits squarely in Schaub's corner. That person just happens to be one of the key decision makers in the Houston Texans organization. None other than Gary Kubiak himself. I found an excellent article on the upcoming 2012 Houston Texans situation as it relates to the QB positon. http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/02/24/kubi...backup-qb-job/

As I have said all along, Schaub is Coach Kubes guy, whether the haters like it or not! Let's give a hand to Coach Kubes for his astute vision and leadership. With a little luck, Coach Kubes could add a 2013 Super Bowl appearance to his resume. What I found interesting about the article is that Coach Kubes does not seem to be as enamored with T.J. Yates as our resident Schaub haters. Coach Kubes says that Leinart and Yates will have to battle it out for the back up QB spot to Schaub. One other observation, in reading the linked article, I could not even find a hint from Kubiak that he was considering either Leinart or Yates for the top spot.

Hmmm, that brings me to my next observation. While reading the article, I could not help but reflect upon Dopey Dude Daddio's outlandishly foolish prediction (a few weeks back) that T.J. would be the Texans starting QB in 2012. It is quite obvious that Dopey Dude has been consistently wrong in his predictions, especially as it relates to T.J. Yates. I suppose we can add another demerit to Dopey Dudes ever-growing list of Houston Texans related items that he has been wrong on.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but didn't Dopey Dude cut and run from the $100 bet I offered to make with him following his bold, but foolish prediction that Yates would be the 2012 Houston Texans starting QB? Yes, I am pretty sure he is one and the same. Fortunately, there is only one Dopey Dude! Well, if nothing else, Dopey Dudes repeated inaccuracies gives us something to laugh at!

Perhaps we should start referring to him as Dopey Dude the Cable Guy!

[One-Eyed Willy]

BT, yeah man I heard that as well. I think we ALL know Schaub will be starting 2012. That is of course unless we land some kind crazy deal to get an elite here. Again, its a very far off shot in the dark. For me (perhaps and for most) the main thing to take away from Kube's statement is the emergence of TJ battling it out with Leinart for the #2 spot. That is of course if they re-sign Leinart(another UFA), which all indications show they will.

An excellent way to catch up on the Texans, perhaps even better than what local media has to offer is directly from the teams website on their Podcast Central Page. This has the entire interview with Kubes and Rick Smith at the NFL Combine. Though the local media makes good points, there is no substitute than getting information directly from the source, IMHO.

As for you repeated comments on "the dopey dude," come on man... You made good arguments on his strengths. Daddio made good points on his weaknesses. We all share 1 thing in common and that's for H-Town to finally get an NFL Championship. Also, I'm sure all agree the QB position is the most important one. So how could you fault others for wanting a better QB? Unless Schaub greatly underperforms, IMO the QB debate is over. The fact is Schaub is our starting QB. Any Texans fan (pro Schaub or not) wants him to succeed 2012.

As for the national media and H-Town alike, most believe Schaub would have gave us a better chance. Part of the reason for the L's was TJ having a limited playbook and Kubes being conservative. If Schaub was the QB, Kubes would have obviously approached the final games differently. The same could be said if Leinart was in there as well as he had 2yrs in the same system. For Kubes to say TJ and Leinart will battle it out for #2 says a lot for TJ. Although Schaub is widely known to be the best option, he is also NATIONALLY known for coming up short in big games. Have you seen the teams we're playing next year?? There are quite a few BIG GAMES. We may even have 3 or 4 nationally televised. I am not a Schaub hater, I WANT HIM TO BE BETTER!! Although he improved 2011, the areas outlined in the 1st linked article still could use some improvement. My main concern for Schaub is if the injury will further limit his mobility. Its great to hear that he is ahead of schedule so hopefully it wont be an issue. I believe the same could be said for Daddio or any other so called "Schaub Haters." Instead of endlessly debating over a tiresome matter and diminish the value of one of the most posted, most viewed, threads in ECCIE ,, why not wait and see?

2012 will be the year for Schaub to leave an everlasting mark in the league. How about we leave it at that and all hope 2012 will be THE YEAR??!!

Post whatever the fuck you want, I don't mean to tell ya different. I'm just saying you fellers (BT & Daddio) can do better..

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by One-Eyed Willy

2012 will be the year for Schaub to leave an everlasting mark in the league. How about we leave it at that and all hope 2012 will be THE YEAR??!!

Originally Posted by Daddio

...........and have him compete with Schaub for the backup role behind TJ next year.

You have only outlined what you and I would like to see occur. It is quite obvious, we both want the Texans and Schaub to have a successful 2012 season. Dopey Dude appears to look at things differently. It is apparent from the above referenced quote that Dopey Dude predicted on these pages that the best Schaub can hope for is to compete "for the backup role behind TJ next year." Those were his unedited words, not something I made up!

As for me, I'm still holding out hope that Dopey Dude will put his money where his mouth is!

Dopey Dude was last seen trying to hitch a ride on the "Cut and Run" Express!

[Guest040616]

Commish, to further expand on my previous post, I have been a pro football fan in Htown since its inception in 1960. (Yes, I am that old) I recall back in those days, the Dopey Dudes of that era wanted to get rid of George Blanda because he was too old, even though he brought Houston two championships. Since those days, the most popular football player in Houston has always been the back up quarterback. First it was Jackie Lee and then Don Trull. Trull finally beat out Blanda and Blanda was either released or traded to Oakland and became the backup to Darrel Lamonica, as well as the Raiders place kicker. He was later put in the Pro Football Hall of Fame and was very deserving of the award.

Next it was the QB that the Dopey Dudes loved to hate, Dan Pastorini. Like Schaub he was not an upper tier QB but he was very good. As far as the Dopey Dudes of the world are concerned, very good is not good enough. They soon found out that the Gifford Nielson and Oliver Luck (yes, his son is Andrew) were not good enough either, but the Dopey Dudes of the world wanted Bum to trade Dante. Bum traded Dante to Oakland for Ken Stabler who had a couple of lackluster years in Htown prior to hanging up his cleats.

The only starting QB who I can never recall there being a QB controversy in Houston was Warren Moon, who had a Hall of Fame career based largely upon his days in Htown. The Dopey Dudes will never be satisfied. There is always a rookie, 5th round draft choice who is better and they can not understand why they are not starting. There have been a few Dopey Dudes who made it all of the way to become a Head Coach or General Manager of a professional football team. There is one thing each of the Dopey Dude HC or GM's have in common. None of them last very long in the NFL!

[Satin]

Well, I've been out of pocket a bit and missed a lot. Very nice discussion once all the name-calling and foolishness is put to rest.

Cat-Man, I'm glad you're astute enough to realize that just because you point out a particular players weaknesses, does not make you a "hater"..... I believe my man Daddio is also a season ticket holder so he is putting his money where his mouth is. I know he wants ALL the Texans to do well. Also if you shell out that kind of cash, you have the right to criticize players if you want.

I hope the Texans make the right moves this offseason. I've said my peace.

Man, did you see RG3 run that 4.38? Damn, that's one fast QB...

I'm trying to focus on basketball now and try to tune out baseball. Although my Lakers are giving me fits, at least my favorite player(Kobe) is busy leading the NBA in scoring and breaking MJ 's record today as the highest scoring player in the All-Star game history...

Back to the NFL....

[Chrisrock]

Don't forget who the MVP of the game was, playa...

Hook'em, Horns!

[Guest082824]

Chris Rock knows what's up...Hook 'em!!!!!

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[TheDon]

Steelers are so Fucking beastly on Madden, it's not even funny. Their defense goes so Fucking hard. I can't believe they got Lawrence Timmons and Lamar Woodly with their first two picks in the 07 draft. The Texans first two picks were Okoye and Jacboy...sonofabitch..and two out of the next four picks after Okoye were Patrick Willis and Darelle Revis

Yo Satin, we need to edit the name of this thread, or maybe start a new one?

Starting an NBA one would be great too. I like that you're a Lakers fan, I'm sure there will be many Rocket fans here. I'm a Mavs fan, so there's potential for more fun conversation.

[Guest082824]

Originally Posted by Don91

Steelers are so Fucking beastly on Madden, it's not even funny. Their defense goes so Fucking hard.

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