Redistribution of wealth

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

2010 having no estate tax was a boon for some. The Steinbrenners of Yankees fame saved hundreds of millions by having the old man bite it last year & would have had to sell their cable network to retain control of the Yankees if he held on until this year.

Wonder how many of these deaths were the result of foul play?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

*there are many estate planinng strategies that can minimize this in many cases...but the fact that one has to go to great lengths & expense to employ complex strategies ("loopholes") to avoid/minimize taxes says volumes about how stupid the current statutes are...

Exactly, that is why it should be treated as income for the beneficiary. We tax the lotto winners just as as if it was income. Same concept. Everyone that bought a lotto ticket had paid taxes on their money, yet nobody complains that the lotto winner is being double taxed. I guess some folks like to control their $ , even from the grave. Crazy concept if you ask me.

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Wonder how many of these deaths were the result of foul play?

Oh the Yanks haven't been that bad.

[pjorourke]

Oh cut the crap WTF. Like everything, estate taxes are paid by the upper middle class -- not the truly wealthy. Its paid when the sum total of a paid off homes (or homes), family business and retirement accounts pass to the children -- usually following the early death of the parents (or one if they were separated).

People with real wealth don't pay this tax - Exhibit A being folks like the Kennedy's, Kerry's wife, Gates and your buddy Warren (you should pay more taxes) Buffet. The last two especially are going to control their fortunes from the grave without paying a nickel of estate taxes (although Warren thinks you should) by setting up tax-free foundations that will pursue various pin-headed pursuits that are the brainchilds of a bunch of liberal "executive directors" and their staff.

Give me a fucking break! Do you ever let reality intrude in that little fantasy land of yours?

[DFW5Traveler]

Don't forget also that the ultra rich that WTF likes to vilify tend to create foundations that are exempt from estate taxes. The Rockerfellers have been passing their various foundations down from generation to generation without having to ever pay taxes on the moneys they earn. BTW, WTF, the Rockerfellers are leftists and they seem to push views that you espouse, but they damned sure don't practice what they preach. Clean up your own party instead of vilifying those you might be jealous of for their success.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Oh cut the crap WTF. Like everything, estate taxes are paid by the upper middle class -- not the truly wealthy. Its paid when the sum total of a paid off homes (or homes), family business and retirement accounts pass to the children -- usually following the early death of the parents (or one if they were separated).

People with real wealth don't pay this tax - Exhibit A being folks like the Kennedy's, Kerry's wife, Gates and your buddy Warren (you should pay more taxes) Buffet. The last two especially are going to control their fortunes from the grave without paying a nickel of estate taxes (although Warren thinks you should) by setting up tax-free foundations that will pursue various pin-headed pursuits that are the brainchilds of a bunch of liberal "executive directors" and their staff.

Give me a fucking break! Do you ever let reality intrude in that little fantasy land of yours?

Damn, PJ, someone has to give us liberals jobs.

And I'm surprised that a Libertarian like you is trying to prevent anyone from determining what is done with the wealth they've amassed. I thought you believed in complete economic freedom. Or, is that only if it is being used in a manner of which you approve?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

. Clean up your own party instead of vilifying those you might be jealous of for their success.

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Give me a fucking break! Do you ever let reality intrude in that little fantasy land of yours?

If you two would take off your dunce caps you might know or have read that I am not for ANY of this BS estate planning that hides wealth. Fuc, you two are dogmatic as they come!

Get rid of it ALL!

That includes both parties DFSW. Havent you read a word I posted? What about you PJ? I think charities should be treated like any other business. God Damn, how many times do I have to tell you boys the same shit.

They are a business....let them stand on their own merit.

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by WTF

If you two would take off your dunce caps you might know or have read that I am not for ANY of this BS estate planning that hides wealth. Fuc, you two are dogmatic as they come!

Get rid of it ALL!

That includes both parties DFSW. Havent you read a word I posted? What about you PJ? I think charities should be treated like any other business. God Damn, how many times do I have to tell you boys the same shit.

I've read your words and most times your posts contradict the language you write in another thread. Have you taken your meds lately? You seem to want equality then you call us dogmatic for complaining about the libs like Rockerfeller or Gates for creating foundations to hide their assets from gvmt coffers. Which is it, do you want equality or not?

I personally think fair tax is the only way to go. If we are to pay income taxes everyone pays at the same rate. This progressive income tax is a plank right out of the communist manifesto. Eliminating personal property is also a plank of the communist manifesto. Which direction do you lean?

[I B Hankering]

If inflation increases in the next 40 years like it did in the last 40 years, folks making $1 to $1.5 million per year 40 years from now will represent the middle class. But I’m sure Congress will make the necessary accounting adjustments to the “Death tax” just as they have done with the AMT.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

I've read your words and most times your posts contradict the language you write in another thread. Have you taken your meds lately? You seem to want equality then you call us dogmatic for complaining about the libs like Rockerfeller or Gates for creating foundations to hide their assets from gvmt coffers. Which is it, do you want equality or not?

?

What I would like and reality are two different things. I would like folks to start out as equal as possible. Let Darwin take over after that.

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

I personally think fair tax is the only way to go. If we are to pay income taxes everyone pays at the same rate. This progressive income tax is a plank right out of the communist manifesto. Eliminating personal property is also a plank of the communist manifesto. Which direction do you lean?

Ok, everyone pays the same % of their income in sales tax or drivers license.....Don't you understand that regressive taxs level the playing field except for the poor poor poor and the uber rich?

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Damn, PJ, someone has to give us liberals jobs.

As long as they don't have anything to do with me, I'm glad to see you employed and off the dole you guys created.

And I'm surprised that a Libertarian like you is trying to prevent anyone from determining what is done with the wealth they've amassed. I thought you believed in complete economic freedom. Or, is that only if it is being used in a manner of which you approve?

Since I don't agree withe the estate tax, I really don't give a shit what people like gates and all do with their money. See previous comment in this post.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by WTF

What I would like and reality are two different things. I would like folks to start out as equal as possible. Let Darwin take over after that.

So do we make them all look the same, have the same energy, strength and level of intelligence too? If we are going to be equal, lets do it across the board. And while we are at it, lets do it for all of the countries in the world. Give them all the same values while we are at it. And say, there might be some aliens somewhere on another planet that would have an advantage or disadvantage. better bring them into this knucklehead scheme too. Can't be unfair can we? None of this strikes me as any more or less moronic than your equal money idea.

Ok, everyone pays the same % of their income in sales tax or drivers license.....Don't you understand that regressive taxs level the playing field except for the poor poor poor and the uber rich?

I got a better idea. Suppose we take the total cost of government and divide it up like a lunch check -- equal amount for everyone. Why should I pay more for your lunch, just because I'm more productive than you are.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

As long as they don't have anything to do with me, I'm glad to see you employed and off the dole you guys created.

[color=Blue]

Since I don't agree withe the estate tax, I really don't give a shit what people like gates and all do with their money. See previous comment in this post.

The whole concept of an estate tax is a farce.

Hey WTF, if you wanna come over to my place and play "Monopoly" some day that would be cool. We can start with the same amount of money and the best man (with a little luck mixed in) will win. We'll have a good time. It will be a fun game. At the risk of beating a dead horse, that isn't real life....

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

I got a better idea. Suppose we take the total cost of government and divide it up like a lunch check -- equal amount for everyone. Why should I pay more for your lunch, just because I'm more productive than you are.

Gee whiz, PJ. Running a Constitutional Republic like the US isn't like paying for lunch. Doing it that way only benefits you, b/c you get the most of the same benefits as everyone else for a proportionally less payout. You get the education, roads, defense, etc. If you're bitching b/c you aren't getting some welfare benefits, I'm sure there are some welfare recipients out there that would be willing to trade places with you.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

. Can't be unfair can we? None of this strikes me as any more or less moronic than your equal money idea.

.

Degree's PJ, degree's of fairness. You get enougfh poor folks like back in the thirties and see if we don't have a redistrubition of wealth again.

I agree with the first of that tirade. Not sure how it applied to anything I was trying to get across but think what you like.

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

. At the risk of beating a dead horse, that isn't real life....

Look, if ya'll don't want part of my charm and good looks to help you get through life, I ain't gonna beat it into you.

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by WTF

What I would like and reality are two different things. I would like folks to start out as equal as possible. Let Darwin take over after that.



Ok, everyone pays the same % of their income in sales tax or drivers license.....Don't you understand that regressive taxs level the playing field except for the poor poor poor and the uber rich?

You sound like you approve of discrimination based on class. You are definately a lib/progressive. You refuse to look at facts, you change the subject when the facts are presented and you can't come up with anything not already spread by the main-stream "Soros" media. You, sir, are free to speak your linear-thinking mind, however your arguments are anathema to my own. Maybe some of the people who read your words will begin to see true dogmatism.

30k Salary = 4.5k @ 15% Net 25.5k
100k = 15k @ 15% Net 85k

The person making 30k would now have INCENTIVE to better his situation. However, the current tax code gives that person the ITC, income tax credit, as a bonus for staying in that income bracket. Where did his/her incentive go? The big gvmt advocates, both R and D, took away his/her incentive to better his/her situation

The median family income (that's a 2 income family) in the US has risen from 21,587 in 1999 to 52,029 in 2008. if someone making 250k+ is paying 15% they would still be paying more. The current tax code allows for cheating, i.e., hiding income in foundations, to which people like Warren Buffet, lib, pays a lessor percentage in taxes than his employees.

I'm sick and tired of rich libs who feel guilty about making money in a capitalist system, then complain about the very system that allowed them to amass that wealth. If they really fealt that guilty wouldn't you think they would want to help the people they stepped on to amass that wealth instead of donating to causes in foreign countries?

Bill Gates, lib, was complaining in front of congress that there weren't enough educated people in the US to fill the seats of his company and he needed an unlimited amount of h1b visas to fill those seats. He could easily have created programs/scholarships to educate the impoverished youth of the US to fill those seats instead of donating billions to foreign planned parenthood programs. Businesses plan ahead, typically 5 years out, MS is no different. If MS knew it needed to fill seats 5 years out and graduations occur every year... well if you can't see the big picture by now, it's useless trying to educate you...