NFL and Houston Texans Superthread: Are we ready for some football?

[Guest090716-1]

Elephant in the closet alert......What to do about Mario?

If you're going to keep Mario, then it will be done at the expense of the defensive depth. Something has to be sacrificed, decisions have to be made soon.

As stated by others one or two more receivers need to be added to the receiving corps. A DeSean Jackson and a good rookie candidate, preferably one with speed will address the issue. With Jackson you also have a punt/kick returner as well as a dangerous receiver.

But once again......what about the elephant in the closet??????

IJS

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Easye

Elephant in the closet alert......What to do about Mario?

But once again......what about the elephant in the closet??????

I may not like it but I am willing to discuss "the elephant in the closet." I still believe the Texans should do everything within reason to sign Mario. He has given an indication that he would be willing to give the Texans a hometeam discount. EXPLORE that possibility! I repeat, EXPLORE that possibility!

It is ludicrous to let one of your own (and arguably this year's most coveted free agent in the NFL) walk without doing everything possible to sign him. There is no way the Texans are a better team without Mario than they are with him. Ladies and gentlemen, you don't get better by letting one of your best defensive players walk! Instead, let a lesser player walk. This isn't rocket science!

Let's say for example that you are involved in a game of 5 card draw and you are dealt a full house, aces over kings. When it is your turn to draw, are you going to give up your pair of kings hoping to get the fourth and final ace? If so, the odds are stacked heavily against you!

Well the Texans are very close to having a full house, as we speak. Mario had 5 sacks in 5 games. Had Mario remained healthy, we have every reason to believe that he would have ended up with 12-16 sacks on the year or possibly more. As good of a year as Brooks Reed had replacing Mario, he only had 5 1/2 sacks in the 10 games he started. Do the math!

A few posts back, I explored the possibility of Mario and Brooks being in the starting line up together, with the Ninja being the top replacement off of the bench. If Mario walks, who is our replacement in case one of our front seven goes down to injury. It sure as hell will not be a player with the ability and experience of Antonio Smith.

I believe it is a no brainer, the Texans must do everything within their power to sign Mario. As for me, I am not about to give up my full house unless I know for an absolute fact the top card on the draw stack is the 4th and final ace!

[Guest040616]

This just in! Matt Miller of the Bleacher Report ranked the current Top 50 qb's in the NFL. He had Matt Schaub #6 which is a little higher than I would have ranked him but........everybody is entitled to their own opinion. It is safe to say I would rank Schaub in my Top 10 but not as high as #6.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...m_campaign=hou

[Satin]

My brother from another Mother Easy fucking E...damn homie where have you been? We've discussed Sorrio at length bro. Man please whatever you do, don't listen to BT. I love chasing pussy with him, but I'm just glad he's not the GM of the Texans.
We have talked about this quite a bit. You really have to understand football, salary caps and other factors before you can make sense of all this. It sounds good to say let's keep him...right? But the problem is that if you do, you can't fill other holes on your team that you need to address.
Answer me this...how did Brooks perform this year? Where did the Texans rank in total defense? All without him right? So why do we need to sign him to a long term fat contract and prevent us from getting a good WR and also maybe prevent us from signing other FA players we really need? Who's to say he won't miss half the season again? He's always hurt. He also has never said he will give us a hometown discount. He said he will let his agent handle things. Personally, why should he? He doesn't owe us anything. I don't think we will or should keep him. I don't like the way he plays...too damn nonchalant for me. I'll stick to Brooks and take my chances.

We need our offensive line to stay together...our kicker, punter and tight ends....PLUS drop Jacobi and Jackson. I don't give a damn what JAD thinks about him...lol

Come on Rick, listen to the experts on Sports 610.... Not BT....all he knows about is hunting strippers...not picking pro football players...

Dopey number 6...lmao...whoever wrote that needs to put the crack pipe down please.....Jesus man.....

Dammit Cat-Man, BT listens to you. Please talk some sense into him for us.....please?!!!!

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Satin

Come on Rick, listen to the experts on Sports 610.... Not BT....all he knows about is hunting strippers...not picking pro football players...

I know we have discussed the Mario situation repeatedly but need I remind you that we also discussed repeatedly the Texans not being as good of a team in 2011 without Schaub at qb. As it turned out, you and Dopey Dude were wrong and I was right! I have never been totally enamored with Schaub at qb. He is very good but not great! I certainly have stated repeatedly that he is not in the Rodgers/Brees/Brady class but he was far and away the Texans best 2011 option at qb.

Not the rookie qb drafted in the 5th round that you and Dopey Dude were slobbering all over!

I predict that Rick will find a way to keep Mario. As I previously stated, you don't let good, dependable football players walk if there is any way to keep them. I also predict there will not be a big splash with a free agent WR. I believe we will use at least 1 of our first 2 draft picks (and quite possibly 2 of our first 4) on the WR position. Luckily for the Texans, this is a deep draft for WR's.

My final (3) predictions this morning: The Texans qb, Matt Schaub, will have 3 TD passes in next years Super Bowl. Our LB/DE Mario Williams will have 2 sacks! With a little luck and the right opponent, they will be competing for Super Bowl MVP.

Onward thru the fog!!!!!

[Satin]

Nope....wrong again....I never said that about the Rook. I was just happy to see someone else take the wheels to get us to the playoffs and he did that. Dopey never did.... We lost...but we got there....

The problem with your logic for the SB is that more than likely neither one will stay healthy enough to even MAKE it to the SB...but will likely be walking around with some boot on their arm or legs...or driving a scooter....in the case of Sorio, he probably won't be here at all..

Truth is I'll probably slobber over anyone at QB that has a strong arm and is mobile and don't throw pick-6's at the end of the game....

Man are you drunk? Lmao...

[TheDon]

Man, Fuck Mario. We have Brooks MOTHERFUCKING Reed. He's like, an 8 out of 10, as is the rest of our LB's. And Sharpton and Braman are good bench guys.

Ya know, I've been playing a lot of Madden recently, and I'm playing with a brand new team: The Pittsburgh Mofucking Steelers. They are the shit! Big Ben is awesome and they have two explosive WR's, and their defense goes HARD. I don't even play with Troy or Harrison, there's this guy named LAWRENCE TIMMONS, I didn't know too much about him, but damn that guy is good. Thank Zues for the Steelers, I wouldn't have a Madden team this year if it weren't for them. Anyway, my point is that I faced the Texans recently, I had never played them before, and they were pretty damn good on defense, their pass-rush translated as well in the video game as it is in real life.

But it wasn't until I played them that I noticed how weak their WR's are. I love Walters, and Jones has great speed, but you take Dre out of the game, all the Texans have is Foster and OD. I think you definitely need more than one play-making WR given how weak defenses have to play now. Let Mario walk and sign a big named WR, that's the only piece that is missing on the team.

Btw Jacoby Jones is ranked as a 96 at Punt Returning, that's pretty good..

[One-Eyed Willy]

Originally Posted by Satin

Dammit Cat-Man, BT listens to you. Please talk some sense into him for us.....please?!!!!

OK. But honestly I think BT's obsession is partly due to getting a rise out of Daddio. I've enjoyed BT's posts though mainly because if we all had the same opinions, the conversation would not be very interesting. Putting aside facetious shenanigans, both BT and Daddio have dissected his play pretty well and both have some legitimate points

On Schaub...

Pros:
- IMHO he is one of the most accurate passers in the league (under 40+yrds)
- He makes for a pretty darn good stat sheet.
- Kubes greatly amplifies Schab's game and allows for him to flourish.
- Other than the shoulder and LisFranc injuries he's been pretty reliable.
- Experienced and set to have a "break out year" during what I'm hoping will be his contract year.

Cons:
- Immobile
- Lack of W's unless team is playing well in all other areas
- Constant pressure gets him out of his game
- Only "bomb's" I've seen him successfully through are to wide open receivers or miraculous catches by Dre
- Has an established reputation of "folding" in big games. (not just here BT, but its also noted around the league)
- Potentially on the "down side" of his career

My take:
First of all I will say that unless we land an elite QB, I like Schaub as our starter. At this point, going into 2012, I don't see any controversy against it. He gives us the best chance to win.. However as I stated before, I'm on the fence about him being an elite or even being comparable to the lacks thereof.

For me, the main issue with Schaub is MOBILITY. IF Schaub had this in his game, I think HE WOULD BE AN ELITE. With his accuracy, our playbook, and a MOBILE QB just imagine...

BOOTLEG
This is where the QB rolls out on play action and multiple options unfold as the Defense is usually caught off guard. If you think Schaub runs this well, just imagine what a mobile QB could do... Not only would LB's and DB's cheat by looking for the rush attack, but now they would have to worry about an elusive QB scramble as well. Downside to the bootleg is that other teams are copying it and are beginning to find ways to successfully stop it. However, like I said, with an accurate mobile QB, there is no way to stop it.

POCKET PRESENCE:
Schaub is not the worst in the league, but is no where near what other QB's are able to do here either. For the most part, Schaub either delivers as he is being hit, throws the ball away, or takes a sack--all "smart plays." However, there are many at the position that have the unteachable ability to EXTEND THE PLAY. More times than not, they can make the 1st guy miss. Schaub lacks in this department as well.

WR Weapons?
Also, regarding WR weapons.... When you have a GREAT QB, you don't need to draft them. An Elite QB creates them... Hell, even if you put someone like Jacoby Jones under a Manning (either one), Brady, Brees, Rogers, or even Matthew Stafford, I'd bet he comes up with a 1,000yd season. Prime example: Eli's creation Victor Cruz (undrafted)


Stats vs W's

BT and I have both stated that Schaub has the ability to put up monster stats. Its factual. However, what's most important? W's of course! right??
As I stated before, in 2010 Defense was the culprit, in 2009 lack of running game. However look at Brady with shit for Defense, a horrible rush attack, and who can't run for shit.----ALL OF WHICH IN THE SAME YEAR, Pats still dawned the best record in AFC, swept playoffs, SB berth... That's what Elite QB' can do... Elevate an otherwise struggling team.


All in all, saying Schaub is a great QB depends on who you compare him with. If its other QB's in Texans brief history, he is the best. If its other top QB's in the league, YOU MUST BE OUT YOUR GOT DAMN MIND...


The reason I like Schaub, is I think he can flourish when the team is clicking on all cylinders. With great D, great rush attack, decent special teams, and strong O-Line,, he's not 1/2 bad.. Take away any of the latter, look for another loosing season. For Schaub, I'll back him nxt year. Other than that, I hope he rides out the last year of his contract and Texans began to revamp the position with either TJ, or freeagency barring Schaub brings home H-Towns 1st ever NFL Championship.

I dream of having a Game Changing QB in H-Town. Thus far Schaub is not it. He's not bad, not great, but ADEQUATE!

Mario vs Foster... Its getting Hot in Here!

On Mario...
Texans are a better team with Mario on the field... However, I doub't we will settle for $.25 on the $1.00 value. IF the Texans were able to bring him in next year not only would it take them out of the free-agency market, it would cause MAJOR issues if they want to bring back key players 2013 onward.

Why better with him?
I won't go into detail as we already have but the main argument is that although Reed plays great, Mario commands double teams. Barwin may command double teams next year as well. In most cases that would leave Watt and Ninja 1-1. So for the opposing O-line, there is no answer unless you got a mobile elite QB and/or top tier rush attack.

Why Cut him?
In one high-risk scenario I've seen, we could do an Exclusive Franchise Tag on Mario ASAP to keep him from talking to other teams while relentlessly working on a cap friendly LT deal. The trick is to have the LT deal worked out before March 13th. This would keep him from seeing offer sheets from other teams but would have to work flawlessly for us not to tie up 22mil before the deadline and be on agreeable terms with Williams. This would be the only way to keep Mario from negotiating with other teams before the deadline. The other drawback is that no tag could be placed on any other player(Foster).
However, I'm sure that other teams with ample cap space would be making offers to Foster and giving up a 1st round draft, pick if the Texans are not able to match, would still considered to be a steal.

Franchise Foster?
Yes!!!!!!!!! Of course I want to see my favorite player here long term but at the same time I don't want other teams grabbing at his shirt tails. The best way to do that is to Tag him. This will keep him off-market and buy some time to fit the missing pieces as well as give Texans time to negotiate the LT deal he deserves.

The Foster/Mario dilemma was predicted and seems to be no a way out without having a great player become a cap casualty. I've seen some scenarios where we keep both, DeMeeco walks, and issues become even greater nxt year.

I'm no Rick Smith, nor am I a sports agent or attorney. However, as an avid fan looking outside in... Bye Bye Mario.. Please don't go to Dallas.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Satin

Nope....wrong again....I never said that about the Rook. I was just happy to see someone else take the wheels to get us to the playoffs and he did that. Dopey never did.... We lost...but we got there....

Damn Bro, I seem to have a dramatically different perspective than you! It is apparent to me that Schaub had more to do with the Texans appearance in the 2011 playoffs than T.J. did. In fact I would venture to say that the Texans trip to the playoffs this year does not occur if T.J. had been the starting qb for all 16 regular season games. Why? The rook only led to team to 4 victory's out of 8 games he started this year. Schaub was 7 out of 10. Before you say that Schaub started more games, let me remind you that under Schaub they won 70% of their games. Under the Rook they only won 50%. If you compute that out, the Rook only wins 8 games for the season, while Schaub wins 11. 11 victory's will get you in the playoffs. In order to get in with 8 you will need lots of help. Not impossible but certainly not probable. Bottom line: Schaub had much more to do with the Texans reaching the playoffs this year than the rook did!

Now let's take a few moments to discuss the general. You proudly proclaimed 4 days ago, that JMc "has forgotten more than we will ever know," (presumably about football). Please, don't shoot the messenger! I am merely repeating your very own words. That same general had Schaub rated #1 in terms of the Texans player with the most value to the entire organization. Furthermore, he only rated T.J. #37! That's a hell of a big difference, isn't it?

Are you now saying that the general, who "has forgotten more than we will ever know," was grossly mistaken to have Schaub #1 and the rook #37?

You can't have it both ways!

The general is either an expert as it relates to the Texans, as you originally implied!

Or he doesn't know jack shit!

Which one is it?

There is one thing that we can both agree on. The Babe you were with in Austin a few weeks ago was a friggin' knock out!

[One-Eyed Willy]

Originally Posted by bigtex

It is apparent to me that Schaub had more to do with the Texans appearance in the 2011 playoffs than T.J. did.

I disagree. Both Schaub and TJ were successful but as MVP of our 2011 Offense, I give the nod to Foster. Not Schaub not TJ.

Offense vs Defense contributions to 2011 playoff berth... I give the nod to Defense.

Originally Posted by bigtex

Are you now saying that the General, who "has forgotten more than we will ever know," was grossly mistaken to have Schaub #1 and the rook #37? Has the General now fallen off of the lofty perch you placed him on?

For me... Foster Foster Foster!!

Originally Posted by bigtex

You can't have it both ways. The general is either on the perch or he is not on the perch!

Per The General:
"Their top priority is Mario Williams. And they’re going to have to scramble big time to make Williams a serious offer before he becomes unrestricted on March 13."

Scramble to make offer Top priority??... We got issues across the board. Keeping Mario could easily cause cap catastrophe in years to come. Especially if the offer is front-loaded.


"Think about the Texans’ offense. That’s not Manning’s offense. He doesn’t roll out and throw the boot. He’s a pocket passer. Manning will go to a team that plays the same offense and is willing for him to basically run it because that’s what he did so well with the Colts until his three neck operations."

His neck was an (unreported) issue 2010. Are we really saying Manning can't roll out and that's why we don't answer the phone?? Health=issue Thinking our offense won't or can't work for one of the best to ever play the position... Really? REALLY? REALLY????


Even still, I like the General... Especially when his questions to Kubes are right on the money! He's great for reporting the Team the way the Texans want the "public eye" to see it. If you want info just as its said by the Team, John McClain is one of the best! If you want info that's speculative based on evidence, I look elsewhere.

Elsewhere such as this article here: Tags, Tenders, and Texans: Free Agency 101 To me this is the best article I've read to date regarding 2012 Offseason. Its not for the average fan. However, if your as fucked up and NFL Crazed as I am, you'd likely appreciate it and rate it highly above anything the General has posted to date regarding the 2012 Offseason.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by One-Eyed Willy

I disagree. Both Schaub and TJ were successful but as MVP of our 2011 Offense, I give the nod to Foster. Not Schaub not TJ.

Commish---The original question had nothing to do with Foster. The question only related to the ongoing debate between Schaub vs T.J. I agree they were both successful but it is quite obvious that Schaub was much more successful this season than T.J.

As for the general's assessment of Schaub being #1 and Foster #2, it did not relate to who was the MVP for the 2011 season. If you read it closely it only related to Schaub having the most value to the (Texans) organization as they move toward next season. I suppose it is subjective whether Schaub or Foster is more valuable going into next season. In other words, the jury is still out on that question. From my personal perspective, I would still say it is Schaub. The difference between the talent level of Schaub and Yates and/or Leinart is much greater than the difference between Foster and Tate. Thus, going into the 2012 season, Schaub would have more value to the Texans than Foster! I agree with the general, Schaub should be #1, but probably by a narrow margin.

What is not subjective is which player is more valuable to the Texans organization going into next season, Schaub or Yates? The jury is NOT out on that one folks! It is clearly Schaub by a friggin' landslide! Don't take my word for it, ask the general. He rated Schaub #1 and T.J. #37. 'Nuff said!!!!!

Did you hear that Dopey Dude?

If the question is who is the better player for his position, I would say it is Foster over Schaub! With that said, the QB position is much more important to an NFL team than the RB position. Draw your own conclusions! I know I have already drawn mine!!!!!

[Satin]

Dammit Cat-Man, as usual I agree with 99.9% of what you said. Especially the Dopey an elite QB "you must be out of your damn mind" & also " bye bye Sorio"....nice.

I'm not debating anything about Dopey...thats a mute point. I'm only discussing Mario " I'm not giving a hometown discount" Williams. Of course we would like to keep him. Hell, I would like to fuck every stripper in Houston, but the reality is, I can't. If we were several millions under the cap, it would be another story. But we're not.

As far as importance, I think the QB is always the most important player. But I rate Fosters value as the most important to the Texans. The guy is money....

BT, I'm coming your way tomorrow, you know where I wanna go....

[TheDon]

Lets get Peyton Manning and Vincent Rocket MotherFucking Catching Jackson in Houston Uni's next year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaXRkIiKplE

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Satin

I'm only discussing Mario " I'm not giving a hometown discount" Williams.

As for Mario, it is not a question of whether Rick Smith will offer a "hometown discount." That's going to happen very soon! The real question is, will Mario accept the discount? If not, Mario will play elsewhere. If he lands somewhere else, I hope it is not the Cowpaddies, Colts, Titans or Jags!

We do know, the Texans will not offer Mario $22.9 million. They would be foolish to do so! Hopefully, Rick and Mario will be able to agree upon a much lower, cap friendly figure! C'mon Rick, work your magic! Get 'er done! I have confidence in ya!

Originally Posted by Satin

BT, I'm coming your way tomorrow, you know where I wanna go....

Damn Bro, you should have given me more notice. I am leaving Austin tomorrow afternoon for a 24 hour trip to Cowpaddieville. The following evening I have a long awaited rendezvous with a former Houston and now Capital City lovely back here in Austin! I want to buy you a drink Bro, but the lovely is already making my heart throb!

Do me a favor and give the stripper chick my cell number when you're finished with her! Damn, she's a looker!

Originally Posted by Don91

Lets get Peyton Manning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaXRkIiKplE

Donnie, you might as well keep dreamin about Peyton, cuz it ain't gonna happen during the waking hours! I still have a Benji that says Schaub will be the Texan's man behind center at the beginning of next year! Thus far, I don't have any takers! I thought I had a mullet but that damn Dopey Dude cut and run on me!

[One-Eyed Willy]

Originally Posted by bigtex

Commish---The original question had nothing to do with Foster. The question only related to the ongoing debate between Schaub vs T.J. I agree they were both successful but it is quite obvious that Schaub was much more successful this season than T.J.

OK.. TJ vs Shaub??? easy... Schaub... 2013 & still no ring, TJ!

Originally Posted by bigtex

As for the general's assessment of Schaub being #1 and Foster #2, it did not relate to who was the MVP for the 2011 season. If you read it closely it only related to Schaub having the most value to the (Texans) organization as they move toward next season. I suppose it is subjective whether Schaub or Foster is more valuable going into next season. I would still say it is Schaub (by a narrow margin) because the difference between the talent level of Schaub and Yates and/or Leinart is much greater than the difference between Foster and Tate. Thus, going into the 2012 season, Schaub would have more value to the Texans than Foster! I agree with the general, Schaub should be #1.

I disagree #1 Foster, #2 Cushing, #3 Dre, #4 D-Line (Barwin, Watt, *Mario*) #5 J.Jo #6 O-Line(mainly C.Meyers and Duane Brown) #7 Schaub.... TJ top 20! AT LEAST!

Originally Posted by bigtex

If the question is who is the better player for his position, I would say it is Foster over Schaub! With that said, the QB position is much more important to an NFL team than the RB position. Draw your own conclusions!!!!!

Agreed but Foster is more valuable to the team. Tate is an adequate back up and would start on other teams but Foster is by far superior with speed and versatility.

TJ will have the entire off-season, playoff experience, and can run 100yds faster than Schaub can run 50yrds. I like our chances better with Schaub. However with this team I believe TJ could also provide a winning season. No debate with me taking Schaub over TJ for now, but having TJ at #37 is a travesty. Yes there is a drop off but not by that margin..

This is his ranks for yr 2012? Come on General...

Originally Posted by Satin

Dammit Cat-Man, as usual I agree with 99.9% of what you said. Especially the Dopey an elite QB "you must be out of your damn mind" & also " bye bye Sorio"....nice.

Originally Posted by Satin

As far as importance, I think the QB is always the most important player. But I rate Fosters value as the most important to the Texans. The guy is money

Agreed the QB position is most important, but as for the most important player to the team.. FOSTER hands down, without Foster's contributions, neither Schaub or TJ, would have had the year they did. Foster's game, on the other hand, didn't miss a beat no matter who was at QB. The General got that one wrong..