American Women and Getting Paid

[guest042111]

Originally Posted by butterflydust

i believe in showing respect to the relationship model that works for any particular couple (or, you know, group, in the case of triads, line marriages, and the like). for example -- what works for lina, works for lina. even if i did not totally adore lina and consider her a friend, which i do, i would still respect her & her boyfriend's choice to do whatever works for them within the framework of their relationship. i am sorry, but crying that she is emasculating her mate when you don't know the first damn thing about him or his personal needs -- not as a man, but as an individual human being -- is not only insulting, but patently absurd. if she was greedy, she'd have stopped working by now to let this dude support her but as you may have noticed, if anyone who lambasted her here has been paying even one iota of attention, she continues to insist on being overall financially independent.

and thus ends my random contribution.

I agree with this.For some reason, my family has a hard time understanding this as well. Me and my husband do not have a typical marriage. I am the breadwinner. He makes some $$$, but I make way more. I am not a Nazi with the cash I make,either.I make sure the bills get paid, food is on the table, some is saved, and have fun with the rest. This works for us because I am better at managing money than he is. If he wants to go out and do whatever, I have no problem handing over some money as long as its there. All he has to do is ask. He does not feel emasculated, or any of that nonsense. I do not throw it in his face that I make more money,either. It is about respect. He makes sure the house is clean and dinner is ready when I get home from school. I hate housework and he is better at it than me. This does not mean that I come home and throw shit all over the floor and expect him to clean it up. Once again, about respect. Sometimes he will take the money I give him and surprise me with flowers. He opens the door for me. I come home to a smile on his face. Our relationship works for us. I also see no problem with a man taking care of a women in this way, it is just not for me. I do not have enough trust in someone to be financially dependent on them.

[Black Sedan]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

What if I started a thread, "I am constantly counseling guys to stand up for themselves. Get as much tail as possible while minimizing financial and emotional investment. Learn how to identify and exploit vulenerable women.....(& on & on)...."


Imagine how much I would (deservedly so) get flamed?

Nailed it.

[Black Sedan]

Originally Posted by SarahAndFriends

I agree with this.For some reason, my family has a hard time understanding this as well. Me and my husband do not have a typical marriage. I am the breadwinner. He makes some $$$, but I make way more. I am not a Nazi with the cash I make,either.I make sure the bills get paid, food is on the table, some is saved, and have fun with the rest. This works for us because I am better at managing money than he is. If he wants to go out and do whatever, I have no problem handing over some money as long as its there. All he has to do is ask. He does not feel emasculated, or any of that nonsense. I do not throw it in his face that I make more money,either. It is about respect. He makes sure the house is clean and dinner is ready when I get home from school. I hate housework and he is better at it than me. This does not mean that I come home and throw shit all over the floor and expect him to clean it up. Once again, about respect. Sometimes he will take the money I give him and surprise me with flowers. He opens the door for me. I come home to a smile on his face. Our relationship works for us. I also see no problem with a man taking care of a women in this way, it is just not for me. I do not have enough trust in someone to be financially dependent on them.

Interesting way you have phrased:
I am not a Nazi with the cash I make
All he has to do is ask OW!
Sometimes he will take the money I give him

Why is it your cash, and not our cash? Is that really trust and respect in a relationship?

In my opinion, you have described a relationship where you are using money as power, even if you are unaware of it.

[ForumPoster]

Originally Posted by SarahAndFriends

I agree with this.For some reason, my family has a hard time understanding this as well. Me and my husband do not have a typical marriage. I am the breadwinner. He makes some $$$, but I make way more. I am not a Nazi with the cash I make,either.I make sure the bills get paid, food is on the table, some is saved, and have fun with the rest. This works for us because I am better at managing money than he is. If he wants to go out and do whatever, I have no problem handing over some money as long as its there. All he has to do is ask. He does not feel emasculated, or any of that nonsense. I do not throw it in his face that I make more money,either. It is about respect. He makes sure the house is clean and dinner is ready when I get home from school. I hate housework and he is better at it than me. This does not mean that I come home and throw shit all over the floor and expect him to clean it up. Once again, about respect. Sometimes he will take the money I give him and surprise me with flowers. He opens the door for me. I come home to a smile on his face. Our relationship works for us. I also see no problem with a man taking care of a women in this way, it is just not for me. I do not have enough trust in someone to be financially dependent on them.

While I could NEVER imagine this working for me (I personally still remember having to ask my dad for ice cream money in 3rd grade and even then it was easier for me to go without then ask) we seem to agree on something very important.

If it works for two people (or 3 or more) it is THEIR choice.

Lina

[guest042111]

Originally Posted by Black Sedan

Interesting way you have phrased:
I am not a Nazi with the cash I make
All he has to do is ask OW!
Sometimes he will take the money I give him

Why is it your cash, and not our cash? Is that really trust and respect in a relationship?

In my opinion, you have described a relationship where you are using money as power, even if you are unaware of it.

Please do not read that much into how I worded that. It is "cash I make" such as the "money he makes". "all he has to do is ask" is no different than me telling him what I want to use the money for. Perhaps I should have put that in there too. I do not take money form our pot without letting him know. And yes, it is OUR money. How am I using money as power? One of us has to keep track of how we spend it,otherwise we would be broke. So yes, I guess you can say I control the finances to some degree. And we do trust each other. He trusts that I am not going to run off with the money I make and leave him with none. He respects that I work,which in return helps him out, and I respect what he does for me. LOL my husband does respect me,baby. And has no qualms about me controlling the money. It was his idea! If it was not for me, it would have been blown on toys and video games! LOL so yes, that is TRUST and RESPECT.

[gfeamanda]

Originally Posted by Tiffani Jameson

I don't say that it never happens, it's just something that I don't witness. And I don't think that you're a minority, not at all. Women making the first move is not all that uncommon nowadays. Sometimes very good men need a bit of help getting to the yes. But I disagree with this approach, because guys like that tend to just go with the flow with whatever lands in their lap. It tends to lead to the lady trying harder than him to make the relationship work. The relationship tends to be a cerebral decision, rather than one based on love and consideration.

How does the woman paying for dinner lead to a relationship not based on love and consideration?

[Tiffani Jameson]

Originally Posted by gfeamanda

How does the woman paying for dinner lead to a relationship not based on love and consideration?

...especially when love and consideration is in the eye of the beholder. I concede the point.

[Guest042611]

Double post! Sorry.

[Guest042611]

I agree with ButterflyDusts's post—you explained things beautifully!

In my civilian life, I date men and women. Typically, we would each pay for ourselves or alternate paying for meals, but it also depends on who makes more money and who invited whom. I used to invite my ex-boyfriend to see ballet with me sometimes. Though he enjoyed it, it wasn't something he would have chosen to do on his own, so I would pay for both of us. Or if I am dating someone who I know makes less money than I do, I'm fine paying for more, regardless of their gender. It makes me feel good to take care of people I care about, when I'm lucky enough to be able to do so.

Outside of escorting, I'm not really comfortable having someone pay for me constantly unless there's such a discrepancy in our finances that it truly makes sense. I have two friends in particular who make much more than me and always insist on paying when we go out (one is a woman and one is a man), and I let them. I try to pay it forward by paying for of my friends who don't make as much.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiffani Jameson

. I have 19 year old brothers who listen to songs about an independent woman who wouldn't dream of letting a man pay. Most real men would call that immasculating.


The problem with society is that people value money more than they value humanity.

If you don't think a lady is worth your time and money, don't give it in your real life or this industry.

I do not understand your train of thought Tiffany. You seem to be saying two entirely different things. I'm just asking?

Originally Posted by Sensual Lina

MY PERSONAL position is that I will never put myself into situation where I NEED a man to pay my bills. As long as I don't NEED someone to buy me stuff I will ALLOW someone SPECIAL in my life to act as a man should. I pay my rent, utilities and all my bills all on my own. But when I go out with my SO - I have no wallet. It does not exist. I am sorry, but by tender age of 40 plus (I prefer to date men of age) Gentleman should be able to afford to take his GF out to dinner. If he can't, he should seriously review his career choices.

So where did I backtrack?

Lina

Well it just seems a matter of buffoonery and showmanship.

You seem to pick and choose what is manly in regards to paying for certain things in a relationship.

Wouldn't a so called real man pay your bills also? To take your logic a step further...

Why would your SO allow you to pay the bills and not dinner. It sounds like it is just for show. But I agree if it works for you fine. But that does not mean that anyone else that does not agree with your model is less a man.

Originally Posted by Sensual Lina

Actually hobby boards have threads like that all the time.

Lina

Now I'm starting to understand why!

Originally Posted by Tiffani Jameson

...especially when love and consideration is in the eye of the beholder. I concede the point.

Now that is class!

Let's all go have drinks, first round on me! atl can buy the rest!

[ForumPoster]

Originally Posted by WTF

You seem to pick and choose what is manly in regards to paying for certain things in a relationship.

Ditto!

Life is about choosing elements you like, putting them together and sharing them with someone who has same values.

So you are absolutely correct. I pick and choose.

Lina

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Sensual Lina

Ditto!

Life is about choosing elements you like, putting them together and sharing them with someone who has same values.

So you are absolutely correct. I pick and choose.

Lina

The question I have is , "Does that make a woman who chooses say........ to pay for the date, to be going out with less a man?

If so, do you not see how that can just become a pissing match on here when we use phrases such as thses?

You calling her choice a name (unmanly), she thinks your choice not the wisest, yadayadayada.

[Camille]

Originally Posted by butterflydust

sorry, but i am going to call you out on this one. the payment that is received is different. the way i see it, when a gentleman is compensating me hundreds of dollars for just an hour of my time, that is ALL he receives -- my time, the promise that i will do my best to master his pleasure during our time together and deliver as promised, along with the promise of my discretion and secrecy, and the promise that i will GO AWAY after our time is up -- and all *i* receive is his time, money, and the satisfaction of playing him like a violin to watch his response.

when the walls crumble and the monetary aspect is eliminated; "payment" is still extracted in other ways. the expectations i have of a lover are vastly different than the requirements i have of a client. a lover needs to give me his free time, shower me with compliments, send me little messages throughout the day just to tell me he is thinking of me, write me long letters by hand, prioritize me and show me that i am one of his highest priorities, whether or not i can ever be his wife, in any number of ways. all i require of a CLIENT is that he pays his fee and treats me with respect. frankly, i think the gent in the latter category has it a hell of a lot easier.

that said, i am talking about a situation within which the parties are legitimately in love. for me, love and money simply do not mix -- and it goes both ways. i have had to end provider/client relationships because the gentleman in question fell in love with me and i felt as if by taking his money, i was exploiting a weakness. whether or not it's true, it's how i feel and it is how i approach things. a sugardaddy or mistress type of relationship, where the parties involved may care about each other but are likely not powerfully in love with each other, would be different for me.

sure, i don't mind allowing a date to pay for me once in awhile. if it really was crucial to the health of a mate's ego, i'd allow them to pay for every date if that is what they really wanted. but i don't EXPECT it regardless of external factors that may influence the relationship.

i believe in showing respect to the relationship model that works for any particular couple (or, you know, group, in the case of triads, line marriages, and the like). for example -- what works for lina, works for lina. even if i did not totally adore lina and consider her a friend, which i do, i would still respect her & her boyfriend's choice to do whatever works for them within the framework of their relationship. i am sorry, but crying that she is emasculating her mate when you don't know the first damn thing about him or his personal needs -- not as a man, but as an individual human being -- is not only insulting, but patently absurd. if she was greedy, she'd have stopped working by now to let this dude support her but as you may have noticed, if anyone who lambasted her here has been paying even one iota of attention, she continues to insist on being overall financially independent.

and thus ends my random contribution.

Brilliant post with tons of interesting points.
Nice to see you over here miss Butterfly. Stay a while please?!?!

Camille x

[ForumPoster]

Originally Posted by WTF

The question I have is , "Does that make a woman who chooses say........ to pay for the date, to be going out with less a man?

If so, do you not see how that can just become a pissing match on here when we use phrases such as thses?

You calling her choice a name (unmanly), she thinks your choice not the wisest, yadayadayada.

Is it just my perception or you along with couple other participant seem to make every possible attempt to make this discussion into pissing match?

The fact that all of the ladies on this thread seem to be able to maintain healthy discussion must be pure torture!

Some of posts even stooped as low as attacking people based on their ethnic and religious background.

Lina

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Natalie

I have two friends in particular who make much more than me and always insist on paying when we go out (one is a woman and one is a man), and I let them. I try to pay it forward by paying for of my friends who don't make as much.

That is the same i do. I have student friends who would never do escorting and i financed one of my female friends to take a few months off so she can finish her thesis without having to work an odd job with not so much pay. I also frequently support my friends with giving them computers because some of them can`t afford new ones or only lousy ones.

And i have friends who are wealthier than me who helped me out financially when i was in need or supported me. I think it all balances out in the end. I have had times when i really needed support and there have been people (men) being there for me and i think its just right to give part of it back.