Have you noticed that the weather is getting worse?

[lacrew_2000]

"I suppose the roads would need warning labels"

Go to the link, click the picture of the guy on a train. Warning, VERY GRAPHIC

http://forum.xcpus.com/general-chat-...top-train.html

[Guest052813-01]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

"I suppose the roads would need warning labels"

Go to the link, click the picture of the guy on a train. Warning, VERY GRAPHIC

http://forum.xcpus.com/general-chat-...top-train.html

Shocking...

[Longermonger]

b) ...but a plug-in hybrid has an ICE to warm the batteries. There is plenty of waste heat to keep the batts warm.
c) Every possible energy source is going to have a high cost. Would you rather pollute the atmosphere and cause species to become extinct? Or maybe you would like to spend billions of dollars and thousands of American soldiers' lives in the Middle East. How about turning parts of our national parks into industrial areas full of hazmat?
d) Traditional lead acid car batteries are too easy to just throw away. I'd wager that fewer of them would get chucked if they weighed 400lbs instead of 50lbs and were under the car instead of just under the hood. This sounds like a redneck problem. The solution is pretty simple...don't make it EASY. Heck, rednecks are pretty easy for engineers to outsmart; just use several hard to access odd-sized metric security Torx bolts to hold down the battery.

Yes, gasoline is still king for a while. But that tiny little gas engine in the Chevy Volt is sure going to look good when gas is $10/gal.

[Longermonger]

The way I see it, US auto makers retreated to high profit truck-based vehicles because they couldn't build a decent small car. At all. Then the bottom dropped out. That's what happens when you paint yourself in a corner.

CAFE is a joke. There should be ONE standard for ALL vehicles. No loopholes. The SUV loophole is one of the things that caused the problem. The latest CAFE numbers are BS. Trucks/SUVs barely have to get any better and cars have to get a LOT better. The thing is based on total emissions, too. So a change to CO2 based air conditioning coolant will be what changes...not actual mileage.

Weight: Mass is your enemy. Distance is your friend. If you drive a 6000lb Escalade into an oak tree and I drive a 3000lb styrofoam armored car with a 30 foot long hood into an oak tree...guess who'll walk away. While required safety devices do add some weight, it isn't as much as you'd think. Modern cars are just bloated bad designs, that's all.

Blame the unions? You guys always forget about Germany. VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) is one of the biggest car companies in the world and they don't seem to have a problem building small cars (Polo, Golf, Jetta) in Germany that compete with the Asian carmakers. They have union labor in Germany and other parts of Europe if I remember correctly. Even luxury German carmaker BMW can make a Mini that spanks most other small cars.

Pontiac Aztek. That's my rebuttal for the "giving American consumers what they want" line. Pontiac. Fucking. Aztek.

IIRC, Bricklin failed with Great Wall and Chery. The Indian trucks might make a tiny dent if they offer a cheap Diesel 4x4. The biggest chance of them really selling well is badged as Chevys, etc.

As an engineer, you should have noticed all of the cool aluminum stuff on the Honda Insight. Aluminum uprights, aluminum body, aluminum engine cradle. , etc. K-series swap?

[john_galt]

a little window into your soul just opened; the rednecks are easy to fool... you are an elitest and prejudice. These rednecks that you hate so much and despise are the same rednecks who put together NASCAR vehicles. Same people who design military small arms, you know rednecks. Those same rednecks populate our military and protect your freedom. I know, you didn't mean THOSE people you meant those other people. Redneck is not a nice word, you might as well use the "N" word. How about you define completely what you mean by redneck and see if we agree with your bigotry.

[Guest052813-01]

Originally Posted by Longermonger

c) Every possible energy source is going to have a high cost. Would you rather pollute the atmosphere and cause species to become extinct? Or maybe you would like to spend billions of dollars and thousands of American soldiers' lives in the Middle East. How about turning parts of our national parks into industrial areas full of hazmat?

I can't speak for everyone else in this thread, but HELL YES!!! - pollute the atmosphere, make species become extinct if they can't survive. Oil is the fuel of freedom. The pervue of the US's involvement in the Middle East is and should be the free flow of oil at market prices. When that free flow is threatened, then our freedom and liberty are threatened. If you don't like the US's involvement in the Middle East, then open up the exploration and drilling of oil in our own territory - ANWAR, the Gulf of Mexico - where the oil that we can extract from these sources would trump the amount of oil we get from the middle east. Allow oil companies to build new refineries so that the production of fuels can be done more efficiently and get to the market faster, reducing the wholesale price of fuel. If that makes me a captialist pig, then OINK, OINK, baby.

[lacrew_2000]

b) Don't it take some of that 'lectricty to keep the batteries warm?
c) yer kidding, right. Species extinct, huh. I do no we just need to drill 'round here
d) I are a redneck (not from 'round here), and I found me a set of them torx a while back

Safety features adds 125 lbs to a passenger car a 5% increase for my compact car.

Didn't blame the unions - blamed the legacy cost of old agreements. Both the unions and the owners get credit for those mistakes.

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan

[Omahan]

Originally Posted by john_galt

a little window into your soul just opened; the rednecks are easy to fool... you are an elitest and prejudice. These rednecks that you hate so much and despise are the same rednecks who put together NASCAR vehicles. Same people who design military small arms, you know rednecks. Those same rednecks populate our military and protect your freedom. I know, you didn't mean THOSE people you meant those other people. Redneck is not a nice word, you might as well use the "N" word. How about you define completely what you mean by redneck and see if we agree with your bigotry.

There is no need to get personal. Please stick to the subject rather than what you deduce and think about the poster.

[john_galt]

I would point out that the insult was cast by Longermonger with his redneck comments.

[BiggestBest]

"Daddy, he started it!"

Everyone take your well-deserved lumps and then get back on the topic.

[Longermonger]

Originally Posted by Omahan

There is no need to get personal. Please stick to the subject rather than what you deduce and think about the poster.

Thanks, but I'm not bothered. The "Hell Yes!" in post #96 was a little scary, though. That reply means "Hell Yes!" to dead soldiers. Yikes!

I'm glad I wasn't drinking milk when Galt defended rednecks by bringing up NASCAR otherwise it would have shot out my nose and onto my keyboard. NASCAR? Really? I'm supposed to be in awe of a spec-racer series with heavy cars on little tires on steel wheels powered by cookie cutter carbed V8s that only turn left*? Color me unimpressed. I've driven a dog-box formula car in the rain in heavy traffic.

Galt, you did stumble on something that actually DOES offend me every time I hear it. It's the tired old myth that only conservatives serve in the military and that all of the liberals are ungrateful draft dodgers. You'll be happy to learn that at one time I was protecting YOU and YOUR freedom. You're welcome!

*on the majority of tracks

[Longermonger]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

b) Don't it take some of that 'lectricty to keep the batteries warm?
c) yer kidding, right. Species extinct, huh. I do no we just need to drill 'round here
d) I are a redneck (not from 'round here), and I found me a set of them torx a while back

Safety features adds 125 lbs to a passenger car a 5% increase for my compact car.

Didn't blame the unions - blamed the legacy cost of old agreements. Both the unions and the owners get credit for those mistakes.

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan

b) Yes and no. Electric cars make plenty of waste heat. It isn't as much as ICE, but enough. Alternatively, they can heat themselves using battery power. But, if you've ever wired up aftermarket seat heaters you know it doesn't take much juice to make your butt burn.
c) Species already go extinct by the thousands on a daily basis. A radical climate change would accelerate this. Think about it like ECO-abortion and chose life.
d) Male or female Torx? Don't make me break out the Whitworth thread, BSP thread, and left handed fasteners. Aircraft "Nazi tip" screws are always worth a laugh, too.

[john_galt]

Longermonger this a career navy veteran speaking at you. Electricians Mate Chief Petty Officer so watch where you throw your weight.
I know you are a cynical person that doesn't believe anything unless you thunk it up. Look up the C.V. Ricketts, the Preble, and the Guam.

[kccountryboy]

Unfortunately, battery powered vehicles are not the environmentally friendly answer. This is do to the materials needed to manufacture these batteries. While they are "better" than typical lead acid batteries. They are not. This is because of the amount and types of materials needed in the manufacturing and processing.

You brought up the point of tooling. It is not possible to work on a hybrid without out a myriad of special tools. Trust me I know. I have them, I paid for them, I use them all the time. In the 1970's a technician or mechanic needed to know approximately 20,000 pages of inform. Now it is well over a million. There are several types of fasteners. Torx, Inverted Torx, Tripple Square, PZ, butterfly, hex, Tamperproof Torx, Torx Plus, Tamperproof Torx plus, inverter hex, phillips, slotted, square drive, I could go on and on.

There are actually three types of hybrids.
1) A series hybrid: Diesel electric locomotives are configured this way. Sole propulsion is done by an elecric motor. The ICE never powers the vehicle directly. The ICE turns a generator and that can either charge the batteries, or power an electric motor that drives the transmission.

2) Parallel Hybrid: Multiple sources are used to propel the vehicle. This system has both the ICE and the battery connected to the transmission. Either the battery can power the electric motor to drive the the transmission or both the electric motor and ICE together.

3) Series/parallel System: This system can use the electric power alone of have assist from the ICE. These systems combine the function of both a series and parallel system above.

There are 3 types of hybrids and six CARB Emission Groupings.

The types are Strong, Medium, and Micro

Strong: Toyota/Lexus, Ford/Mercury, Nissan/GM 2 Mode, and Mazda
Cable color: Orange, 200 to 300 volt system
Medium: Honda Insight
Cable Color: Orange, 100 to 158 volt system.
Micro: No/slight assist Some GM and Saturn
Cable color: Blue, 36-42 volt system


A strong hybrid may also be referred to as a full hybrid. Battery voltage ranges for 30% to 70% Charge and 200 to 330 volts.

A medium hybrid provides idle stop and regenerative braking. It cannot propel vehicle from stop on battery alone.

The CARB Emisions Ratings,

ZEV: Zero Emission Vehicle. Will never exist, batteries vent some time of gas in use and charge.

AT PZEV: Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emission Vehicle. 2004-2009 Prius.

PZEV: Partial Zero Emission Vehicle.

SULEV: Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle

ULEV: Ultra Low Emission Vehicle.

LEV: Low Emission Vehicle.

Tools you have to have to work on a hybrid.

1) High voltage gloves, Class 0 rated for 1000 Volts
2) CAT III certified digital multimeter rated for 600 to 1000 volts. These have insulated probes.
3) Full set insulated tools.

You are not to be working on, in or near water when service, it ends badly.
Wear no Jewelry at all, it conducts electricity. Insulated boots.

This alone kind of gets rid of the shade tree mechanic or the guy who wants to work on his own vehicle on the weekends. No more weekend warriors who work on their cars.

[kccountryboy]

Another heavily popularized thought is biodiesel. This is not new. In fact, diesel engines had to be "converted" to run on petroleum based diesel instead of the original platform of biodiesel. Biodiesel is actually easy to make.

Diesels are also now fitted with DPF or diesel particulate filters effective with the 2007 and new model year for all manufactures. Heavy trucks are required to have them by 2010 model year I believe. What this filter does is traditionally when you stop the throttle or under heavy load, one would see heavy black smoke clouds billowing from the exhaust pipe. This DPF is basically and air filter for the exhaust that traps these hydrocarbons. The draw back is that there is a service burn procedure that is to be performed to "regenerat" the filter. Now even some vehicles will require another fluid that is to added to the exhaust to lower emissions.

You can tell those vehicles with a DPF because when you look at the tail pipe of the vehicle, it will be tapered. This is to say that it looks like two pipes connected with only straps and the end. There will be full pipe back, a series of steel to attach another that is larger and would fit over the first but is spaced away and held in place by these straps. This new piece would taper to a narrow then widen again at the tip. This is done to create a venturi current to draw in cooler outside air. This is done because when the service burn or regeneration is performed, the tail pipe release temp can exceed 2000 degrees Farenheit. By bringing in cooler air via a venturi current, the temp can drop as much as 700 degrees Farenheit.

The downside to diesels is lack of desire to start when cold and their cost of repair in the event of a failure. Also there are serveral special tools required to service diesels.
Older diesel vehicles used to run only a couple of hunderd PSI Rail pressure. Then came common rail diesels with direct injection. This began running 1k-3kPSI a substantial increase. Diesels today run, particularly the GM Duramax run as much as 30,000PSI pressure. Much harder on components., but more efficient. they still require and EGR.

EGR valve are becoming a thing of the past with the assistance of Variable Valve Timing or VVTi (Toyota), VTEC (Honda), and so on. This is the process of changing the lobe center of the intake or exhaust cam shaft, or even both, By changing the physical position of the camshaft in relation to the rotation of the crankshaft. This has another effect in that more power can be created. Engine managment is amazing these days running as much as 36 degrees advance at idle.

By the way, smallest engine I own is a IL6. I have several vehicles, all others with gas hungry V8s. One of them produces 368 Hp at the wheels, Shuts of 4 cylinders when cruising with under 18% throttle and, if I can keep my foot out of it; will still 33.4MPG. I love it!! Best part is that it's a 4 door sedan! Some of my others are not. I have 2 door sports car with a V10 and Supercharger. It is more of 7-8MPG vehicle. I do have Straight six turbo charged toyota that produces 768HP at the wheels and will get 38MPG if I am nice to it. That is not why I have these though. I enjoy power and speed. I drive them infrequently, but do enjoy them. If I have to pay more for fuel. So be it. As the say goes. You have to pay to play.