Testosterone I'm a big fan!

[OldGrump]

Originally Posted by smysteryman

I'm in my late 30's and was on injection T about 3 years ago. The problem, and the reason I went off it, it because once you start supplementing T your body stops making it. This leads to a condition called "hypogonadism", i.e. Your balls shrink.

I didn't want that to happen so I stopped.

This really is a touchy subject and you really have to weigh the risk/benefit ratio. For me I'd rather take a boner pill and get my T to elevate through exercise.

Just remember that the more fat you have, the more estrogen your body produces. Get rid of the fat and T raises automatically. Most men after 40 have low T because they have too much belly fat.

Just my $.02

If you are only in your 30's, any medication can take its toll over the years.There are another 40-50 years left.

If you are in your 70's, you take a different perspective. ~10-15 more years is all we can expect.

Low T = Low energy and more belly fat. Sure, exercise increases energy, but other health issues may reduce the amount of exercise you can do.

I'd take the T just for the energy increase before depression sets in (another symptom).

Take your 2¢, my 2¢, add a penny and we have a nickel. The value of this thread grows.

[Bluesplyr]

great info... may have to start looking for a doc for a check up. my diabetes, blood pressure and cholesterol meds sure are kicking my as this days. i share all the symptoms you guys have as well.

thanks for the great info...

[GingerKatt]

My guy used to take the test that you rubbed under your arms every day and then you had to let it dry. He was on it about 2 yrs and it stopped working as well, so his doc switched him to the shots. I give them to him once a week, and he can really tell the difference. It helps depression, builds more lean muscle mass and increases libido. He was out of town and missed one once and he started feeling very bad, and depressed. He plans on taking it indefinitely.
I also have a female friend who's 50, and she takes a small dose of the gel every day, and she feels much better, and has lost weight and has more energy. She's also on estrogen. Women do need testosterone, just in small doses, and many women over 40 don't produce enough anymore.

[digitalbananna351]

I just administered my 1st shot this morning myself.....not so bad.. my 1st injection hurt like hell and I had a knot on my quad for 3 days.....hopefully I get used to it.... but I have to say last week I had better sleep, more energy and just felt better overall..... I started out in the low 200's and gel only raised me to the low 300's..... hobelfully the shots should get me where I need to be....

[OldGrump]

Originally Posted by digitalbananna351

I just administered my 1st shot this morning myself.....not so bad.. my 1st injection hurt like hell and I had a knot on my quad for 3 days.....hopefully I get used to it.... but I have to say last week I had better sleep, more energy and just felt better overall..... I started out in the low 200's and gel only raised me to the low 300's..... hobelfully the shots should get me where I need to be....

That initial pain can be eased by rubbing the area with an ice cube. I'm not sure about reducing the lump. Perhaps massaging the area or injecting slower? I have no experience with T shots yet but have had some shots in the hospital that put a pretty good hurt on me.

Keep us posted, digitalbananna.

[TheWanderer]

Originally Posted by digitalbananna351

I just administered my 1st shot this morning myself.....not so bad.. my 1st injection hurt like hell and I had a knot on my quad for 3 days.....hopefully I get used to it.... but I have to say last week I had better sleep, more energy and just felt better overall..... I started out in the low 200's and gel only raised me to the low 300's..... hobelfully the shots should get me where I need to be....

You'll get better with practice. Use a mirror if you can and administer it in your rump or learn to really relax the area before. Inject it slowly since you are displacing tissue and it will be less sore. Ice is good too, afterwards.

[SpiceItUp]

Originally Posted by OldGrump

This has been one of the best threads yet. There has been some very good information shared here and I'd like to give special thanks to SpiceItUp for his expertise and references.

no problem I'm happy to share what I know, as I've said before there's so much misinformation out there

My endoncronologist will prescribe the gel or shots. She prefers the gel and doesn't do the beads. My urologist likes the beads. Once they can agree that other tests are stable and I can go on T therapy, shots will be my choice. If the ups and downs bother me, go to the gel. Once a stable dose is determined, the beads may be a good option.

Correct my logic here:

With the shots and gel, the dosage can be adjusted "on the fly" while you're stuck with the beads until they wear off. Until the level is determined, that seems best.

Sort of yes, once your body's natural production shuts down then yes you can adjust your levels very easily on the fly by adjusting dosage and frequency. At first though while your body is still making it's own testosterone then it is a bit more complicated.

This is often why people will get on gel or injections,feel great for 3 months, start feeling less great, and then get their levels checked to find they are still low. Thats because what happened was their pituitary was still sending LH to the testes during the first couple of months so they were getting both their own testosterone and the exogenously administered testosterone resulting in high levels of T. Once their body shut down production they were left with only the exogenous test which now needs to be adjusted upward in dosage

The shots are cheaper which must be considered in connection with insurance. If they cover it, either one is fine. If you will be losing insurance and relying on your own or Medicare Part D, the shot gets a nudge.

For the long term with a known stable dosage, the beads look better. There is less frequent maintenance. Insurance considerations apply here too.

From the posts, it seems like the gel works for most but some have switched to shots. It gives a stable daily dose of T which seems ideal.

Those who took the shots like them. It would seem that the ups and downs could be reduced by adjusting the timing and dosage of the injections.

The beads, which I originally thought I preferred, may not last until the next scheduled implant. Also, I don't understand how the dosage is determined for the first time.

Your assessment of testosterone pellets and the pros and cons is accurate. Everyone absorbs differently so dialing in your personal ideal dose and frequency is a process that will span over multiple procedures. Since pellets last awhile that means a potentially year long process. If you use pellets a first while you have natural production going this issue is exacerbated as mentioned above.

As to how the initial dose is determined, well, the real answer is they wing it and/or go with the manufacturer guidelines. There have been some methods developed at Baylor College of Medicine using body mass index to arrive at initial dosages but that's atypical and questionable at best given the variance in individual absorption

I"m still processing all of this with a list of questions for my next doctor visit.

Good luck!

[SpiceItUp]

Originally Posted by smysteryman

I'm in my late 30's and was on injection T about 3 years ago. The problem, and the reason I went off it, it because once you start supplementing T your body stops making it. This leads to a condition called "hypogonadism", i.e. Your balls shrink.

I didn't want that to happen so I stopped.

This really is a touchy subject and you really have to weigh the risk/benefit ratio. For me I'd rather take a boner pill and get my T to elevate through exercise.

Just remember that the more fat you have, the more estrogen your body produces. Get rid of the fat and T raises automatically. Most men after 40 have low T because they have too much belly fat.

Just my $.02

You're correct that estrogen levels are correlated with the amount of adipose tissue you have.

You're also correct that exogenous testosterone administration causes a shutdown in natural production of testosterone.

However, that's not what "hypogonadism" is, that refers to a diminished productive capacity of the gonads in general. If a person has low-T they most likely already HAVE hypogonadism, either primary (testicular problem) or secondary (pituitary problem).

Ball shrinkage is what's known as "testicular atrophy" and it does happen sometimes but not always. As your body's natural production goes from "barely enough" to "nothing at all" the testes can begin to atrophy from disuse. This is because the Leydig cells that produce the testosterone start to shrink in size.

The issue is merely cosmetic and doesn't always occur or occurs in varying degrees but it does bother some men.

If that's your primary issue then a TRT protocol which includes HCG shots will take care if this issue entirely. HCG mimics LH and thus "tricks" the testes into continuing testosterone production even though the HPTA axis is indeed shut down.

Adding HCG adds yet another variable to finding the right protocol, insurance often will not pay for it, and not as many doctors are willing to prescribe it.

In your case, if you're able to get normal T levels by losing weight and exercising then by all means do so. You should never have been put on TRT in the first place if that was an option. But if all you're worried about is a bit of shrinking nuts then by all means educate yourself and treat accordingly.

[thrill99]

Awesome thread with great information. I feel I'm more educated on the subject. I greatly appreciate it.

[Skaht7]

anyone try T+ from Onnit?