Killings of Kaufman County district attorneys. Care to speculate?

[Whirlaway]

I hope the Texas law enforcement agencies are processing the crime scene evidence and controlling all aspects of the investigation.......

If the FBI (ATF) crime labs are sole propritor of evidence............not a good thing.

The FBI is under the jurisdiction of US Attorney General Holder. And we know he is capable of lying, denying, obfuscating, and otherwise stonewalling the truth, especially when it involves Fast N Furious.

Developing................

[timpage]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Jimmy Chagra was acquitted (found not guilty) of hiring Harrelson.

As for Harrelson, who was convicted of doing the killing: no weapon, no witness (except for a hypnotized female lawyer who lived in the same condo complex as the Judge .. but didn't see or hear any shooting, and a taxi driver who changed the description of the person riding in his cab after he had some interviews with the Feds. There was no direct evidence that tied him to the killing. Harrelson had a lengthy history he bragged about, which was his demise ... talking too much (his testimony at the trial was "theater" for him). Someone had to go down for the Judge.

The Assistant U.S. Attorney attempt was never tied to Judge Wood's killing. BTW he was transferred out of the SA office and given a desk job incognito with the DOJ.

My point was, and is. Someone has to go down for the security embarrassment.

He was acquitted on the murder charge, plead guilty to obstruction and conspiracy in connection with the attempt on the US attorney and the killing of Judge Wood.....actually. So, if you think a plea by Chagra copping to involvement in both of those crimes means the two were "never tied", good for you but you're wrong.

Regarding evidence, there was a tape recording by the FBI of a conversation between Jimmy Chagra and his lawyer brother where they discussed Chagra's hiring of Harrelson to kill the judge. Chagra's trial on drug charges was supposed to start the day the judge was killed. Harrelson did it. Shit, he confessed to doing it during the standoff with the FBI when he was arrested. The revisionist history on it has been propounded by his whacky actor son Woody Harrelson.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

I hope the Texas law enforcement agencies are processing the crime scene evidence and controlling all aspects of the investigation.......

If the FBI (ATF) crime labs are sole propritor of evidence............not a good thing.

The FBI is under the jurisdiction of US Attorney General Holder. And we know he is capable of lying, denying, obfuscating, and otherwise stonewalling the truth, especially when it involves Fast N Furious.

Developing................

Wow...."Developing".....Do you think you are Matt Sludge or something? Will there be film at 11?

The only thing that is developing is your dementia. Whacko.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

The congestion and extended residences in our "jails" and "prison" are not primarily "morals" enforcement, unless one considers stealing, physical brutality (including rape), and murder ... and will include bribery and corruption in there also....."morals crimes" ... !

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...on-scheme?lite

"Six New York lawmakers arrested in alleged corruption scheme"

Although the suggestion does seem to lend credibility to the whining .... which is a mere illusion. (Frankly, I don't think someone upset with a prostitution arrest offed the ADA, DA, and the DA's spouse, along with putting DA's and ADA's in several other counties, including Harris on a "hit list"~! But that's just speculation on my part.). I do hope that LE and the media have the same enthusiasm for tracking down and killing the perpetrators on those killings in Kaufman County as was expressed and demonstrated in the recent "man hunt" for the "cop killer" on the loose .... particularly since the recent killings were lawyers and one's wife!

My point was more to all these immoral drug laws, not prostitution. Though that too is a waste of taxpayers money spent on these 'crimes'.

I do not have the stats so correct me if I'm wrong, more people are in prison for drug crimes than any other.

[timpage]

You're not wrong. I read somewhere just the other day that almost 60% of federal prisoners are there for drug offenses. State prisons and jail rate was around 20-25%.

The entire thing is absurd. And, unlikely to change any time soon....if ever.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by timpage

You're not wrong. I read somewhere just the other day that almost 60% of federal prisoners are there for drug offenses. State prisons and jail rate was around 20-25%.

The entire thing is absurd. And, unlikely to change any time soon....if ever.

Unjust laws will lead to unjust killings.

[JD Barleycorn]

I would like to have this back on track but think I have to respond to some things;

Janet Reno DID NOT run justice when Waco began. Accept it. It is true.

Serving a warrant: uniforms, yes, weapons, yes, armored cars???, TV crews???

Hillary running Justice...opinion based on the knowledge that she was the one who made the choice of Janet Reno (see her and Bill's books). She was heavily involved with how Justice ran.

The FBI lied about using combustible tear gas canisters. Read the link.

Yes, I saw the story last night about the AB and mexican drugs gangs. Posted the link too. Lets talk about that. Does it mean that law enforcement is at war with the cartels?

[Guest032516]

The TV crews were there of their own volition. Somebody tipped them off and they showed up for the raid. The ATF did not invite them.

The ATF is a federal agency and the execute their own search warrants - just like the FBI. The don't turn it over to the local sheriff - it's a jurisdictional matter. They doesn't mean they can't ask him for advice or to tag along, but every police agency executes its own warrants, since they are responsible for what happens.

Also, the ATF did not execute the warrant with armored cars. They approached the compound in cattle trailers towed by pickup trucks owned by individual agents.

The armored cars were not brought in until towards the end of the seige - long after the shootout occurred.

The ATFs big mistake was that they lost the element of surprise and conducted the raid nonetheless. That happened when the press asked for directions to the compound - from David Koresh's brother in-law, who promptly informed the Branch Davidians. That gave them time to arm up.

The ATF was entirely correct in their assessment that the Davidians were violent and would resist. Body armor and heavy weapons were entirely justified. But once they knew the Davidians knew they were coming, they shold have postponed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege

[Jewish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by WTF

Unjust laws will lead to unjust killings.

One could interpret this as an argument for justifiable homicide against the duly constituted authorities - are you saying prosecutors get what they deserve when they enforce an unjust law? Is that your interpretation of what happened in Kaufman?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

One could interpret this as an argument for justifiable homicide against the duly constituted authorities - ?

One could I suppose say that about George Washington at the time.

Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

- are you saying prosecutors get what they deserve when they enforce an unjust law? Is that your interpretation of what happened in Kaufman?

I have no idea if they got what they deserved. I have no idea who did it or why. I doubt that it was justified from my POV.

My point is that if the long arm of the law comes down on some and their perception is that it is unjust, then they feel they are justified in their Defense. I'm sure the Branch Dravidians thought so.


Mayye you can as EXTXOILMAN when he things it ok for the ''the citizenry to protect itself from the tyranny of government''?

Originally Posted by EXTXOILMAN

In the interest of correcting your ignorance, see the article below on the purpose of the Second Amendment. No, it was not to form militias, it was to allow the citizenry to protect itself from the tyranny of government. The Founders knew there would be morons like you who would be perfectly happy with a nanny state government controlling their lives, and put in place multiple mechanisms to prevent that from happening. Read and be enlightened...

/

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by timpage

The revisionist history on it has been propounded by his whacky actor son Woody Harrelson.

I've never even heard Woody talking about it.

I did hear Harrelson's testimony. Live. Chagra was found not guilty of the murder and conspiracy to commit murder of the Judge in Florida. His brother pled, cut a deal to testify against Jimmy.

What was the physical evidence tying the two shootings? What was the physical evidence tying Harrelson to the Judge's shooting?

Conversations? An hypnotic remembrance from a pathological lying? FBI tapes? Cell mate snitches? Folks cutting deals? There was no science .. no physical evidence.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by timpage

He was acquitted on the murder charge, plead guilty to obstruction and conspiracy in connection with the attempt on the US attorney and the killing of Judge Wood.....actually.

Don't take my word for it .... How about the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals???:

"United States Court of Appeals, Fifth Circuit.
No. 91­5623.
UNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff­Appellee,
v.
Elizabeth Nichols CHAGRA, Defendant­Appellant,
and
Jamiel Chagra, Movant­Appellant.
April 2, 1992.
Appeals from the United States District Court for the Western
District of Texas.
Before JOLLY and EMILIO M. GARZA, Circuit Judges, and SHAW,
District Judge.*
SHAW, Chief District Judge:
Petitioner appeals the denial of her motion for reduction of
sentence. We affirm.
I. BACKGROUND
On April 15, 1982, Elizabeth Nichols Chagra ("Mrs. Chagra"), along with her husband Jamiel Chagra ("Jimmy"), her brother-in-law Joe Chagra and Charles Harrelson, was indicted for conspiring to commit first degree murder of a federal judge. Jimmy and Joe
Chagra were also charged with first degree murder. On a motion by the Government, Jimmy's trial was severed from the other defendants; he was acquitted on both counts. Mrs. Chagra was tried and convicted and sentenced to 30 years in prison. She appealed her conviction.
*Chief District Judge of the Western District of Louisiana,
sitting by designation.

Pending her appeal, Mrs. Chagra's husband Jimmy entered a plea of guilty in an unrelated matter...."

"unrelated" to the killing of the Judge.

Would that be attempting to kill the AUSA Kerr? That "unrelated" matter?



It is funny how those conspiracy theories go .... BTW ...

Around that same time members of a rather historically notorious motorcycle gang were being prosecuted on multiple weapons charges .... Since John Woods had the nickname of "Maximum John" there were any number of persons who might have taken exception to his propensity for handing out lengthy sentences ... in a harsh and abrupt manner.

[JD Barleycorn]

I ahave heard soldiers with more common sense that exhibited by the ATF in Waco. You loose the element of surprise, send in one man to ask how this is expected to end. You know, flag of truce.

Got caught in the middle of a ATF operation in Chalmette, LA. The press was tipped off as well. They raided a gun store operated by a reserve deputy. The customers (that's me) were herded to one side and not allowed to contact anyone. They admitted that they had no probably cause but needed the records to find out if there was an infraction. Ironically, this gun shop was a primary supplier for the ATF guys who were at Waco. They were on a first name basis.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

...a ATF operation in Chalmette, LA.

.... they had no probably cause but needed the records to find out if there was an infraction. ....

"ATF" doesn't need PC to get firearms records ... #1, and #2, the U.S. Constitution is not applicable in Louisiana.....didn't you know that?

[JD Barleycorn]

Do they need to (you've obviously missed my point) come in with force, brandish weapons, detain customers, and make a show of carrying out the paperwork in rifle boxes in front of the press who they tipped off? Care to cover that? I am an American citizen and my rights go everywhere with me in the United States.