The Corrupt Ukraine Scam

[tommy156]

Originally Posted by berryberry

sending cluster bombs - weapons so horrific over 100 countries have banned them - to corrupt Ukraine

Ukraine never signed that treaty, and neither has Russia. Cluster bombs are completely fair game here. Nor is it a "war crime" for us to send them.

I'm compiling a list of words and phrases you repeatedly use incorrectly, and it's getting rather long at this point. Maybe I'll start a thread for it lol.

[HDGristle]

Russia used cluster munitions in Ukraine in the first month of the war 16 different attacks.

Ukraine has been using them as well, after receiving them as part of military packages provided by Turkey.

Bitching about this now is solely designed to shade Biden, it has nothing to do with the potential humanitarian consequences because that particular voice doesn't care about Ukraine or its people.

Meanwhile, our clusters will be substantially more effective and with lower dud rates than anything being fielded by Russia or Ukraine today. And they're a stopgap, not a planned ongoing norm.

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by tommy156

I'm all for Ukraine fighting back dirty. Enough is enough, FFS. And let's be absolutely clear about one thing: the only war crimes committed here have been by that slimy fuck Putin.

Did Wolf Blitzer tell you that? It’s 100% UNCLEAR who does what in the fog of war. If you think that Ukrainian soldiers who just saw their friends blown to bits wouldn’t put a bullet in someone’s head for looking at them sideways, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

This isn’t a movie or Call Of Duty, there are no respawns. Real people are dying and anyone watching close up is going to be slightly, or majorly, fucked up in the head for the rest of their life. Put these fuckers in a room, lock the door and don’t let them out until they hammer out an agreement that stops the madness.

This cluster bomb crap is a distraction. It makes no difference if someone is killed by a bomblet or a thousand pound jdam, they’re dead either way.

[tommy156]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

Bitching about this now is solely designed to shade Biden, it has nothing to do with the potential humanitarian consequences because that particular voice doesn't care about Ukraine or its people.

Yep. It's all they got.

[tommy156]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Did Wolf Blitzer tell you that? It’s 100% UNCLEAR who does what in the fog of war. If you think that Ukrainian soldiers who just saw their friends blown to bits wouldn’t put a bullet in someone’s head for looking at them sideways, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

But it's 100% CLEAR who started this shit, and that many, many war crimes have already been committed by Putin. Whether or not Ukraine has committed them is kind of a non-starter here, seeing that they would have never happened without Putin's obvious war crimes coming first (you're right about that part being unclear, though).

[chizzy]

Originally Posted by tommy156

But it's 100% CLEAR who started this shit, and that many, many war crimes have already been committed by Putin. Whether or not Ukraine has committed them is kind of a non-starter here, seeing that they would have never happened without Putin's obvious war crimes coming first (you're right about that part being unclear, though).

very clear who wanted this...... and fyi, hardly a conservative outlet, just the opposite

https://www.salon.com/2023/07/08/the...about-ukraine/

[tommy156]

Originally Posted by chizzy

very clear who wanted this...... and fyi, hardly a conservative outlet, just the opposite

https://www.salon.com/2023/07/08/the...about-ukraine/

First words of the byline: "Russia's invasion was a war crime". Ok. At least we cleared that up.

So, let's stop acting like the onus is on Ukraine to come to the table and "negotiate" any kind of "settlement". Russia needs to get the fuck out of their country. Period. Then we can all stop spending money on this.

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by tommy156

I'm all for Ukraine fighting back dirty. Enough is enough, FFS.

Thanks for once again confirming you are ok with Senile Biden committing war crimes by cheering on sending cluster bombs - weapons so horrific over 100 countries have banned them - to corrupt Ukraine.

And thanks once again for confirming that you don't give a damn about the Ukrainian people

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by tommy156

Ukraine never signed that treaty, and neither has Russia. Cluster bombs are completely fair game here. Nor is it a "war crime" for us to send them.

LOL, Fair game, LOL.

When you and your fellow leftists are so far left that even the terrorist in congress, Ilhan Omar, disagrees with you, you know you are in the wrong. But it is clear you don't care about Ukrainian citizens who will be the victims of these cluster bombs. Just like you don't care about negotiating a peaceful settlement

And YES, last year, Senile Biden's Press Secretary said it is a war crime to use cluster bombs

MINNEAPOLIS—Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) released the following statement after it was reported that the United States plans to send cluster munitions—controversial weapons banned in 108 countries—to Ukraine. Rep. Omar will also co-lead an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act prohibiting the sale of cluster munitions.

“Cluster munitions are illegal under international law. A total of 123 countries have ratified the convention to ban their use under all circumstances—including nearly all our allies.

“It’s not hard to understand why. Because cluster bombs scatter multiple small bombs over a large area, they kill civilians both during an attack and after. I was recently in Vietnam where I heard firsthand how innocent civilians continue to be killed by US cluster munitions a full fifty years after the conflict ended. Tens of thousands of explosives are found every year there.

“We have to be clear: if the US is going to be a leader on international human rights, we must not participate in human rights abuses. We can support the people of Ukraine in their freedom struggle, while also opposing violations of international law. (In fact, the innocent victims of the cluster munitions will almost exclusively be Ukrainian civilians).

“Instead of dealing cluster munitions, we should be doing everything in our power to end their use.

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by tommy156

First words of the byline: "Russia's invasion was a war crime". Ok. At least we cleared that up.

So, let's stop acting like the onus is on Ukraine to come to the table and "negotiate" any kind of "settlement". Russia needs to get the fuck out of their country. Period. Then we can all stop spending money on this.

Funny how you missed all this after the partial sentence you selectively quoted:

although one that was provoked by NATO expansion and by U.S. backing of the 2014 "Maidan" coup, which ousted democratically elected Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. Yanukovych wanted economic integration with the EU, but not at the expense of economic and political ties with Russia. The war will only be solved through negotiations that allow ethnic Russians in Ukraine to have autonomy and Moscow's protection, as well as Ukrainian neutrality, which means the country cannot join NATO. The longer these negotiations are delayed the more Ukrainians will suffer and die. Their cities and infrastructure will continue to be pounded into rubble.

And yes, the onus is on Ukraine to come to the table and negotiate a settlement if they want peace and to stop the bloodshed. They scuttled the last peace talks.

[HDGristle]

Originally Posted by tommy156

First words of the byline: "Russia's invasion was a war crime". Ok. At least we cleared that up.

So, let's stop acting like the onus is on Ukraine to come to the table and "negotiate" any kind of "settlement". Russia needs to get the fuck out of their country. Period. Then we can all stop spending money on this.

Yep. And that doesn't mean letting a strongman keep what he's illegally annexed.

We know what kind of appeasement can lead to

[tommy156]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

Yep. And that doesn't mean letting a strongman keep what he's illegally annexed.

We know what kind of appeasement can lead to

Exactly. There's nothing to negotiate. Putin, get the fuck out of Ukraine and return every inch of territory that has been illegally annexed. Period.

If not, then it's cluster bomb time. As many as it takes for the war criminals to GTFO.

[Jacuzzme]

The war will only be solved through negotiations that allow ethnic Russians in Ukraine to have autonomy and Moscow's protection, as well as Ukrainian neutrality, which means the country cannot join NATO.

This is the issue. A good 80% or more in select areas of Ukraine are Russian and wish to live in their sphere of influence. What’s shown on TV now is nothing resembling the truth. It was the same in Crimea (which has thrived the past decade with infrastructure and services improvements), where that 80% number is WAY too low.

The trick to this is taking what the media says, and consider the truth to be the exact opposite.

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by tommy156

But it's 100% CLEAR who started this shit, and that many, many war crimes have already been committed by Putin. Whether or not Ukraine has committed them is kind of a non-starter here, seeing that they would have never happened without Putin's obvious war crimes coming first (you're right about that part being unclear, though).

It is 100% clear what started it, which is US politicians meddling in Eastern Europe to enrich themselves and their families.

[tommy156]

More of the constant confirmation bias, I see. When the media says something you don't agree with, the "truth" must be "the exact opposite". But when the media reports a story you like to hear, then it's all good.

It works with Ukraine, as well as a whole host of other topics. You can't lose!