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Old 01-20-2012, 05:49 PM   #76
Little Stevie
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You Teapublican morons! Your FIRST argument was that we were going to use the oil HERE. Then when that falls apart you still want to make it easy to sell high sulfur content oil tar to other countries.

And WrongStuffer, if a plastic part fails and the resulting gas leak blows up a day care van carrying 6 kids, is that the minor/major threshold you're trying to defend? Your "minor failure" point is a major flop.
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:03 PM   #77
Little Stevie
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Originally Posted by robin hood View Post
How does refining Canadian Tar Sands in Port Arthur and then selling the refined product overseas contribute OUR energy independence since the gasoline and oil is not going HERE. How does it contribute to ANYTHING but Big Oil's bottom line?

What a sham!

Stop toxic heavy tar sands from being pipelined across the U.S. especially when it won't help us one bit by thanking the President for this temporary victory and stopping other pipelines.

http://www.sierraclub.org/environmentallaw/tarsands/

Back on July 2nd, an ExxonMobil pipeline ruptured in Montana, sending 42,000 gallons of oil spewing into the Yellowstone River and forcing hundreds of local residents to evacuate. There were many affected. Exxon used PAPER TOWELS to try to stop the 42,000 gallons of oil! They spend their money on marketing and exploring - NOT on cleanup technology!

These guys aren't through pushing this thing in Congress!

Join: http://www.texansagainsttarsands.org/?tag=sierra-club

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Old 01-20-2012, 06:10 PM   #78
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No our first argument was that the pipeline brings jobs when jobs are badly needed.

Supply is supply. More lowers the cost everywhere. Canada sells $80 a barrel oil to China, Iran can't sell $100 a barrel oil to China, it has to lower its price. This is a huge generalization but in the long run this is how it works.

We can refine heavy crude. It boils down to economics and national will.

Enjoy your unicorn ride to the polls. Stop inhaling butterfly wing dust.
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:18 PM   #79
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Stevie,

Please answer this question:
If the environmental concerns are so troubling why are Democrats hinting that Obama will approve the pipeline AFTER the 2012 election?
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #80
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No our first argument was that the pipeline brings jobs when jobs are badly needed. No it was the oil supply.

Supply is supply. More lowers the cost everywhere. Canada sells $80 a barrel oil to China, Iran can't sell $100 a barrel oil to China, it has to lower its price. This is a huge generalization but in the long run this is how it works. Apples and oranges - not the same price as you clearly state.

We can refine heavy crude. It boils down to economics and national will. EVERYTHING boils down to money and the oil companies are NOT going to "super-refine" heavy crude here to meet emission standards when they can spend less refining it and sell it to third world countries.It has UPWARD pressure on the price of OUR gasoline and other refined petroleum.

Enjoy your unicorn ride to the polls. Stop inhaling butterfly wing dust. You simply have no concept of detrimental effects to the planet. Everything, to you and your ilk, is based on what is cheap and easy without regard for any long-term consequences. You Teapublicans are so transparent. You're all dollar signs inside. The less you can spend no matter what the long-term price, the better you think it is.

You just hate Obama because AM Hate Radio TELLS you to hate him.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:17 PM   #81
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Nevergaveitathought is exactly right. Oil (at least oil of similar qualities/grades) is a fungible commodity, and since the Canadians are going to produce the tar sands oil whether we buy it or not, the global supply/demand balance will not be significantly altered by our Keystone Pipleline decision.

But this is about far more than price. In a world where unstable areas supply so much of our energy, and since the Iranians continually threaten to stop the flow of oil through the Strait of Hormuz, we need to secure all the steady supply potentially available.

I might also point out that we have a number of very valuable trade and other relationships with Canada. It's a significant export market, and that's critically important in these days of huge U.S. balance-of-payments deficits.

Sticking it to the Canadians for no good reason is ridiculously stupid.

Everybody is a lil right and a lil wrong.

Muchado about very little.

http://www.chron.com/business/steffy...of-2642909.php

The greatest spill threat from the Keystone XL wasn't oil, it was hyperbole.
After the Obama administration's decision to deny a permit for TransCanada to build the cross-border pipeline, the Internet and the airwaves were awash in exaggerated claims. Some lawmakers blasted the president as a job-killer, saying the loss of the pipeline meant the loss of a quarter-million prospective jobs.
Meanwhile, the actor Robert Redford wrote on his Huffington Post blog that the decision is a victory of "historic proportions for people from throughout the pipeline path and all across America who have waged an uphill, years-long fight against one of the most nightmarish fossil fuel projects of our time."
Imagine: a pipeline that doesn't even exist is more "nightmarish" than, say, the Deepwater Horizon accident in which 11 men died and almost 5 million barrels of oil spilled into the Gulf of Mexico, or the Exxon Valdez accident that dumped 257,000 barrels into Alaska's Prince William Sound.
The Keystone showdown was a battle of phantom horrors. It might have shipped heavy crude through a pipeline for which there were no guarantees that an accident wouldn't happen. Some of the oil might have been refined in Texas and exported. (Exporting, as I wrote last week, really does create, or at least sustain, thousands of permanent jobs.)
There were so many things the Keystone line might or might not have done, and the claims escalated daily as the rhetoric built to a crescendo of what can only be described as historic proportions.
The real cost of the battle, though, was in the loss of perspective. Wishful thinking, obstinacy and inflammatory rhetoric - whether from the oil industry or environmental groups - isn't the basis for a national energy strategy. That requires reasoned debate.


Permit was real object
From the beginning, the fight wasn't about a pipeline; it was about a permit. Even if the State Department granted the permission for the line to cross the U.S.-Canadian border, it didn't mean the pipeline would be built.
As I wrote last year, an influx of Canadian crude into the northern U.S. has caused the flow of oil from the Gulf Coast to the Midwest to slow to a trickle.
Owners of those pipelines have yet to reverse their flows, but it's a safe bet that if TransCanada announced it was going forward with the Keystone line, at least some of them would.
That's what happened when Houston-based Enterprise Product Partners said it would move forward with the Wrangler pipeline from Cushing, Okla., to Houston. ConocoPhillips sold to Enbridge its stake in the Seaway pipeline, which follows a similar route but flowed north from the Gulf. Enbridge and Enterprise, which also owned part of the line, said they would reverse the flow.
If other pipeline operators follow Seaway's lead, the economic rationale for Keystone may disappear.

Yes was correct answer
In making its decision, the administration was supposed to determine whether the pipeline was in the national interest. From that standpoint, the permit should have been approved. As I've argued before, while the U.S. may not immediately need the Keystone line, a strategy of securing energy supplies as crude becomes constrained in the global market makes sense.
When and if it should be built, though, should be left to the companies that have to put their capital at risk.
Redford seems to believe that by blocking the Keystone permit, at least until TransCanada reapplies for it, environmentalists scored a victory for "clean" energy. They did nothing of the sort. They have not made clean energy more affordable, more reliable or more available.
Nor would the Keystone pipeline by itself have made us more secure, had a meaningful effect on world oil prices or been a magic bullet for high unemployment.
So Keystone is dead, at least for now. We need to bury the rhetoric along with it.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:21 PM   #82
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No our first argument was that the pipeline brings jobs when jobs are badly needed.
How many jobs do you think it would have brought?
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:38 PM   #83
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I actually think the President is wrong on this one I think the gains are greater than the risks.

Really? The Cornell University Global Labor Institute wrote, “It is our assessment—based on the publicly available data—that the construction of [Keystone XL] will create far fewer jobs in the U.S. than its proponents have claimed and may actually destroy more jobs than it generates.” Job estimates, the report says, are based on flawed or inflated numbers supplied by the oil industry. The Cornell report also says that Keystone XL would “almost certainly be constructed by temporary labor working with steel made in Canada and India.”
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:44 PM   #84
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This is what happens when you let totally unqualified people make decisions concerning major projects that will aid the Country for decades to come.

Most of you are not old enough to remember when the Alaskan Pipeline was proposed. The same arguments were put forth then, but the adults won the arguement and it's safety record has been top notch.

Idiots.
aid the country for decades? Hardly. The Cornell University Global Labor Institute wrote, “It is our assessment—based on the publicly available data—that the construction of [Keystone XL] will create far fewer jobs in the U.S. than its proponents have claimed and may actually destroy more jobs than it generates.” Job estimates, the report says, are based on flawed or inflated numbers supplied by the oil industry. The Cornell report also says that Keystone XL would “almost certainly be constructed by temporary labor working with steel made in Canada and India.”

And ALL of the oil is destined for EXPORT already.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:20 PM   #85
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You just hate Obama because AM Hate Radio TELLS you to hate him.
Boo hoo hoo. Answer my question. If the environmental concerns are so troubling why are Democrats hinting that Obama will approve the pipeline AFTER the 2012 election?

Its been stated so many times before, even a person with your poor comprehension skills should have picked up on it: We don't hate Obama, we hate his policies and politics.

The weight of your counterarguments depends mainly on the scam that is man made global warming.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:24 PM   #86
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Really? The Cornell University Global Labor Institute wrote, “It is our assessment—based on the publicly available data—that the construction of [Keystone XL] will create far fewer jobs in the U.S. than its proponents have claimed and may actually destroy more jobs than it generates.” Job estimates, the report says, are based on flawed or inflated numbers supplied by the oil industry. The Cornell report also says that Keystone XL would “almost certainly be constructed by temporary labor working with steel made in Canada and India.”

Is it really that hard to provide a link BL? Or are you incapable of that?

Hopefully, the keystone pipeline will destroy the unicorn farms and rainbow ranches that are the solar and windmill (bird chopper) industries.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:34 PM   #87
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Is it really that hard to provide a link BL? Or are you incapable of that?

Hopefully, the keystone pipeline will destroy the unicorn farms and rainbow ranches that are the solar and windmill (bird chopper) industries.
Read more:http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor. ..security-60041

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor. ..#ixzz1k3IaLAWZ

Not only will the pipeline NOT provide jobs the oil is already contractually marked for over seas delivery. The US will NEVER see a drop of oil from that pipeline.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:36 PM   #88
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Is it really that hard to provide a link BL? Or are you incapable of that?

Hopefully, the keystone pipeline will destroy the unicorn farms and rainbow ranches that are the solar and windmill (bird chopper) industries.
Given the United States’ problems with oil, it is tempting to see Canada as a friendly neighbor and Canadian oil as an ethical solution. But that just isn’t the case. Oil from the Alberta Tar Sands is a valuable substance that, understandably, oil companies would like to refine and sell to the highest bidder. It’s easy to see how the Keystone XL pipeline would be in Canada’s national interest, or in the interest of the six companies that wish to refine tar sands crude in the Gulf (in tax-free trade zones, no less). But peer through the smokescreens of jobs and energy security, and it’s hard to see how Keystone XL, in enabling Canada to sell its oil to the rest of the world, is in the national interest of the United States.

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Old 01-20-2012, 08:40 PM   #89
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Is it really that hard to provide a link BL? Or are you incapable of that?

Hopefully, the keystone pipeline will destroy the unicorn farms and rainbow ranches that are the solar and windmill (bird chopper) industries.
Why do you need a link?
You can google it yourself.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:58 PM   #90
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Jobs I got a job and don't need another. Exxon doesn't pay me a penny. Unlike most of the people here who believe everything Exxon and there buddies push every year it's another energy independence sceme. This year its a pipeline. One year it was ANWR. A few years ago it was Iraq
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