NFL

[valleyguy]

NFL sucks, fuck kappernick, and these guys should protest another way. they arent conducting themselves professionally. its their right yes but another avenue must be chosen if they want to get a message across

[DocHolyday]

Originally Posted by SCRAP

I don't know what sucks worse..... the NFL or this thread...

The NFL!!

+2 Mokoa
+2 BJ

[proteus317]

Originally Posted by Bill James

Let's see someone take a knee at Kyle Field before a football game.
In Austin it would be expected.

I bet no one takes a knee in North Korea or other dictatorships during their anthem.

Originally Posted by Mokoa

I never questioned their right to protest. What I labeled malicious was their method. There are ways to protest without being disrespectful. They chose to not do that. That is malicious.

Freedom of speech does not include freedom of responsibility.

Your defintion of malicious depends on whether the method is disrespectful or not. Some feel the method is disrespectful; some don't.

Originally Posted by moneytalksny

Deliberate. Absolutely.

LOL... Malicious.. Really?? How can protesting against injustice be malicious? Many people agree with their right to protest. The majority just disagree with the way they are protesting. Just because you may not agree it doesn't make it malicious. That's the equivalent of saying Rosa Parks was deliberate and malicious for refusing to sit in the designated "Colored" section..

$

Money, I'm sure some (very fine people) felt Rosa Parks' method of protest was disrespectful. So, yeah, by Mokoa's definition, looks like Rosa Parks was being malicious.

The owners can give in to the dotard (and yes, some fans) or the teams can stay in the locker room during the anthem, like they used to. Players might protest during TD celebrations or whatever, but at least the anthem would be unmolested.

[bill sins]

As I recall after that ballsy act of Ms Parks the black community boycotted the bus company until the seating arrangement was rectified. Possibly the football jocks will boycott the NFL until all is racial correct in the USA. Now that would be a protest instead of acting like a bunch of disrespectful ass holes craving more attention and tv time.

[tandyscone]

I was searching to see if the NFL had made any decision about requirements for players during the national anthem when I noticed a hit that was a little bit unusual:
https://qz.com/1102238/americans-can...ahs-witnesses/
Out of curiosity, I followed the link and read the page. What I read saddened me and even frightened me a little. In 1940, the Supreme Court, in an 8 to 1 decision, ruled that public schools could force children who were Jehovah's Witnesses to stand, salute the flag, and recite the pledge of allegiance in class even though they had religious objections to doing so. According to the article, that decision

led to mob violence across America with Witnesses beaten, tarred and feathered, even kidnapped. Some were hanged, others forced to drink castor oil. Their businesses were boycotted and their homes set on fire. “Nothing parallel to this…has taken place since the days of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s,” the American Civil Liberties Union said at the time.

In 1943, the Supreme Court reversed its position in another case involving Jehovah's Witnesses children and the pledge of allegiance. (The vote was 6 to 3. Three judges changed their minds, and two judges who had been appointed after the 1940 decision joined the majority.)
The article implies that the court reversed itself because of the violence. I have read both opinions, and I didn't see much that they wrote to indicate that the violence was a factor, but several of the comments in the 1943 opinion expressed ideas that I have had since this conversation first started, but couldn't quite figure out how to express:

Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

The case is made difficult not because the principles of its decision are obscure, but because the flag involved is our own. Nevertheless, we apply the limitations of the Constitution with no fear that freedom to be intellectually and spiritually diverse or even contrary will disintegrate the social organization. To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous, instead of a compulsory routine, is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds.

We can have intellectual individualism and the rich cultural diversities that we owe to exceptional minds only at the price of occasional eccentricity and abnormal attitudes. When they are so harmless to others or to the State as those we deal with here, the price is not too great. But freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order.

Words uttered under coercion are proof of loyalty to nothing but self-interest. Love of country must spring from willing hearts and free minds, inspired by a fair administration of wise laws enacted by the people's elected representatives within the bounds of express constitutional prohibitions. These laws must, to be consistent with the First Amendment, permit the widest toleration of conflicting viewpoints consistent with a society of free men.

The ceremonial, when enforced against conscientious objectors, [is] more likely to defeat than to serve its high purpose ...

. . . all attempts to influence [the mind] by temporal punishments, or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, . . .

I understand fully that the Supreme Court decision was regarding forcing school children to recite the pledge of allegiance and does not apply directly to NFL players, but I believe that the ideas I quoted above are universal truths that apply to all situations and are at the core of what America truly stands for. So it saddens me to see so many people who, in the name of the flag, want to deny the principles that the flag represents. I understand that many of you feel very angry, disgusted, perhaps other emotions, and you have a right to feel that way. I would beg of you, however, to try to put those emotions aside long enough to honestly consider whether forcing the players to stand during the anthem is really going to improve this nation in any way.
The part that frightens me is that I see signs that this issue is progressing the same way that things did after the 1940 SCOTUS decision. Remember, this started last year with one player. A few picked it up last year. A handful continued it this year. It was pretty much dying out until the president decided to start an extended campaign against it. In one week we went from a handful taking a knee to a couple of hundred taking a knee, raising a fist, etc. He continues to incite people to anger. I don't know exactly what people are referring to when they talk about Texas A&M's Kyle field, but is sounds like it might be implying physical violence against protesters. All in all, I see the rhetoric getting more and more heated and people are getting more and more angry.

[silvester91999]

This thread truly sucks..

I'm kinda sad that I'm not a sports fan.. if I were then the NFL can go fuck themselves..

But I'm not - so I have nothing to leave.

[rjdiner]

Tandyscone:
Well done indeed. This post has little or nothing to do with disrespecting the flag. That's just the false patriotism the bigots hide behind so they can feel good about themselves. The cracker barrell boys just can't stand it when someone has a different opinion than they do. Most of these guys who say so, just have their collective noses up Shawn Hannity's and Fox News' ass because they lack the critical thinking skills to see it for what it is, which is a protest against injustice. Yes, even black football players get to have a 1st amendment right but it truly pisses them off when it is exercised.
I left this post alone for a long time because I learned you'll never change the mind of some of these skinheads, so why try.

[DocHolyday]

Originally Posted by rjdiner

I left this post alone for a long time because I learned you'll never change the mind of some of these skinheads, so why try.

Please name who the "skinheads" are here. I thought this was about NFL players disrespecting the flag and the United States, not about ECCIE members being "skinheads."

[bill sins]

Originally Posted by rjdiner

Tandyscone:
Well done indeed. This post has little or nothing to do with disrespecting the flag. That's just the false patriotism the bigots hide behind so they can feel good about themselves. The cracker barrell boys just can't stand it when someone has a different opinion than they do. Most of these guys who say so, just have their collective noses up Shawn Hannity's and Fox News' ass because they lack the critical thinking skills to see it for what it is, which is a protest against injustice. Yes, even black football players get to have a 1st amendment right but it truly pisses them off when it is exercised.
I left this post alone for a long time because I learned you'll never change the mind of some of these skinheads, so why try.

Well RJ being the man of courage that you are it is reasonable to see why you do not understand. You were protesting eccie in a harsh manner, calling names and just raising hell. UNTIL eccie requested you to cut it out or a ban was in your future. You immediately shut the fuck up. Your protest came to a sudden halt. If banning from a hooker site scares you I can imagine how quickly you would walk away from meaningful protest. So go hush or someone will hurt your feelings.
Now then does anyone recall what this NFL player protest is all about?

[bill sins]

Taking a knee for 15 minutes then plating a game for an hour for millions is not a protest. Selma, Alabama now that was a protest.

[rjdiner]

[QUOTE=bill sins;1060089031]Well RJ being the man of courage that you are it is reasonable to see why you do not understand. You were protesting eccie in a harsh manner, calling names and just raising hell. UNTIL eccie requested you to cut it out or a ban was in your future. You immediately shut the fuck up. Your protest came to a sudden halt. If banning from a hooker site scares you I can imagine how quickly you would walk away from meaningful protest. So go hush or someone will hurt your feelings.
Now then does anyone recall what this NFL player protest is all about?[/QUOTE
FYI
This is what talking through your ass sounds like
You're really a clueless POS.

[bill sins]

Watch out old man you could get banned.

[DocHolyday]

Well RJ, since you are not forthcoming with who are the skinheads you are referring to, I will ask you directly. Are the NFL players, who are standing during the national anthem, skinheads? Are they some other derogatory name you are ready to label them with?

[Mokoa]

It is the typical liberal tactic. They cannot support their argument on the issue at hand so they resort to personal attacks and name calling.

[JRod2]

This thread although at times entertaining is getting old.

In the end, there's actually a reason why the players kneel as opposed to sit yet it hasn't been mentioned.

Nate Boyer - a true American Hero that seems to get it and reached out to understand - what came of that is history

https://youtu.be/EdhS_ORuuow

https://youtu.be/QNlelBZVRYA