Obama Wanted to Apologizes to Japan for the Atomic Bomb!

[Marshall]

Originally Posted by Allen Woody

Sure, in science fiction. In real life, saying I'm going to do a horrible thing so you know how horrible it is doesn't make sense.

Let's release hantavirus-infected rats into their sewers so we can save the world from that too...

admit it....you're just an American-hating communist.....admit it and you'll feel better.....all those lies you have to tell to hide what you truly believe......all the shame you feel because most people love America and you don't....it gets very oppressively tiring being in a small minority.....this is an anonymous message board....go ahead, admit you're a scumbag commie.......

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Allen Woody

You're confused. The Japanese maintained a public face that they would meet an invasion with die hard hand to hand combat. Maybe they would have, for the feeble amount of time they would have been able to.

The estimates are of course bogus. Casualties undertaken from idiotic John Wayne charges on pillboxed, well-supplied fortress islands have nothing to do with a full scale invasion, with focused air support and the full weight of the US military on their Imperial capitol, which they never imagined could be invaded and had not prepared for other than issuing a partly number of small arms to citizens. Pistols with two bullets fired by starving children don't do much against a B-52 or a tank.

Seriously? You actually believe this shit you're posting? Thousands of Okinawans [Japanese] civilians committed suicide rather than surrender.

Except for the Philippines, the U.S. by-passed most of Japan's strongest positions when it could - there goes your John Wayne theory. And there were no B-52s used during WWII. You're a pitiful arm-chair general.

EDIT TO ADD: BTW, they weren't relying on "Pistols with two bullets fired by starving children." At that stage of the war, the lack of modern weaponry and ammunition meant that most of “combat capable” 28,000,000 Japanese men and women would be armed with swords or even bamboo spears.

[Marshall]

Originally Posted by Allen Woody

You talk to Jesus and he tells you that nuclear annihilation was sho' nuff the right thing to do.



That's a wrap folks, hope you had a good time, see you down the road.

Actually, I'm an atheist.....I referenced Jesus because I figured commie's hate religious people....yep, you hate religious people.....

if we see you down the road you can be sure we're gonna step on the gas........

[CuteOldGuy]

Guys, guys. You're going to end up hurting someone's feelings. Let's play nice.

[Iaintliein]

I think he should apologize to Iran for nuking them.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Allen Woody

You're confused. The Japanese maintained a public face that they would meet an invasion with die hard hand to hand combat. Maybe they would have, for the feeble amount of time they would have been able to.

The estimates are of course bogus. Casualties undertaken from idiotic John Wayne charges on pillboxed, well-supplied fortress islands have nothing to do with a full scale invasion, with focused air support and the full weight of the US military on their Imperial capitol, which they never imagined could be invaded and had not prepared for other than issuing a partly number of small arms to citizens. Pistols with two bullets fired by starving children don't do much against a B-52 or a tank.

you're historically ignorant.

we did not have B-52s in 1945, they entered service in 1955/56. We had B-29s in service in 1945.

Imperial Japan was governed by the code of the bushido. you are obviously having trouble that idea that large groups of people were willing sacrifice themselves to defeat an invading army. There were several kamikaze attacks against the U.S Navy. They damaged several ships and they were very scary.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Allen Woody

<snip>

They were starving, undermanned, broken and no longer held any foreign territory.

<snip>

That statement is even more offensive then I thought.

You must've been taught some really bad history at the public school you attended.

Japan was not broken and they did not lose much territory. In mid-1945, Japan lost a few key islands. Japan still had a lot of soldiers on several islands that the U.S. didn't bother to attack or invade. Japan also had lot of soldiers in mainland China & Korea and Taiwan. They just couldn't transport their troops back to Japan when they needed them.

the only thing that was broken was the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN).

Much of the surface fleet was sunk. The transports were mostly sunk by the USN Gato class submarines who apparently didn't realize they were having a "happy time" in the Pacific and by the stupidy of several Japanese admirals who thought escorting civilian freight ships were beneath them or (rather "not my job").

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Guys, guys. You're going to end up hurting someone's feelings. Let's play nice.

Too late.

I don't think he'll post any more after this.

He gotta be embarrassed by now.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

That statement is even more offensive then I thought.

You must've been taught some really bad history at the public school you attended.

Japan was not broken and they did not lose much territory. In mid-1945, Japan lost a few key islands. Japan still had a lot of soldiers on several islands that the U.S. didn't bother to attack or invade. Japan also had lot of soldiers in mainland China & Korea and Taiwan. They just couldn't transport their troops back to Japan when they needed them.

the only thing that was broken was the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN).

Evidently Mr Woody wasn’t paying attention in class, because he assumed he knew everything he needed to know to justify his pacifist “opinion”. He obviously never learned about “island hopping” wherein the U.S. intentionally avoided attacking most Japanese strongholds, such as on Rabaul, Jaluit, Wotje, Truk, Formosa, etc., leaving millions of armed Japanese soldiers on islands, in China and in Indochina behind the Allied advance.

And Mr Woody imagined he learned that the Japanese were so weak and dispirited that Stalin only needed to amass 89 divisions with 1.5 million men, 3,704 tanks, etc., – diverted from the Soviet drive against Berlin – to conduct “Operation August Storm” against the Japanese Army in Manchuria, Korea and Sakhalin on 8 August 1945.

[Texas Contrarian]

Seems to me that I.B. was a little better student of history than Mr. Woody.

Well, OK -- not just a little bit. A whole lot!

By the way, I.B., thanks for your many excellent posts over the last year or so dealing with historical matters. On several occasions, one of your posts has made me think, "Damn -- I didn't know that!" -- and prompted me to go look stuff up.

My knowledge of history is still a work in progress, but I enjoy reading and always appreciate book recommendations. We had a pretty good book thread in D&T some time back:

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?...ighlight=books

[Laz]

Another item he overlooks is the POW's. Were we supposed to starve them for the time it would have taken to starve Japan. They were determined to fight and would have held out for years.

[CuteOldGuy]

That's the problem with wars today. We are fighting for political victories (and to enrich the defense and oil industry) not military victories. If we get involved in a war, we should use all necessary means to end it quickly and decisively. If we aren't willing to do that, we should not get involved in the war. Truman did the right thing.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Seems to me that I.B. was a little better student of history than Mr. Woody.

Well, OK -- not just a little bit. A whole lot!

By the way, I.B., thanks for your many excellent posts over the last year or so dealing with historical matters. On several occasions, one of your posts has made me think, "Damn -- I didn't know that!" -- and prompted me to go look stuff up.

My knowledge of history is still a work in progress, but I enjoy reading and always appreciate book recommendations. We had a pretty good book thread in D&T some time back:

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?...ighlight=books

And I enjoy your posts on economic matters.

I went back and reviewed the D&T thread. I didn't mention these two books which are pertinent to this discussion:

Glantz, David M., LTC. The Soviet Strategic Offensive in Manchuria, 1945: ‘August Storm’. London: Crown House. 2003. pp. xxvii, 451.

Allen, Thomas B. and Norman Polmar. Code Name Downfall: The Secret Plan to Invade Japan -- and Why Truman Dropped the Bomb. New York: Simon and Shuster. 1995. pp. 352.

Allen and Polmar's book gives a great overview of the Pacific Theater in addition to a great analysis of why Truman decided to use the bomb. Glantz's book is one of a kind - and expensive. I think it's the only one on that subject written in English, and it's based on Glantz's research of WWII Soviet documents following the break up of the Soviet Union. Those documents, last I heard, are once again off limits to western researchers.

[cptjohnstone]

back to the original subject matter

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

By the way, I.B., thanks for your many excellent posts over the last year or so dealing with historical matters. On several occasions, one of your posts has made me think, "Damn -- I didn't know that!" -- and prompted me to go look stuff up.


http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=86563&highlig ht=books

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

And I enjoy your posts on economic matters.

You two lovebirds get a room and I'll see if I can find ya'll a book to share.