America is not broke...

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by WTF

There was a provision that the Gov could sell the states power plants in a no bid process.

Well thats what it is then. Obviously, its fucked up. Of course, the real question is WTF is Wisconsin doing with power plants to sell? In a rational world, how is power generation a government function?

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Bebe Le Strange

William Henry Harrison "I believe and I say it is true democratic feeling, that all the measures of the government are directed to the purpose of making the rich richer and the poor poorer".

Which is why some of us argue for small and limited governments.

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

No, my premise was that there was no change in purchasing power.

Originally Posted by discreetgent

I claim that premise is unrealistic.

Based on what standard of measure DG?

I can, and have in the past, provide(d) to you a paper (prepared by the Federal Reserve) that discusses the "cost of living" over the course of the last century. It measures that cost in "time". Goods and services are much lower cost today (when measured in the minutes of work required to obtain them) than they were in your glory days of low disparity.

Maybe there was not as much disparity between the top and the bottom...but everyone was spending more of their "time" to buy basic goods and services. Are we better off with less disparity, but higher cost of goods and services to everyone, or more disparity but lower cost of goods and services to everyone?

I know...I know...Yeah, but we can do better.

[MoExec]

After reading the majority of the posts here, I have to say this is a fascinating thread and I had to throw in my own 2 cents worth. I don't think many in this country begrudge wealth acquired in the good ole' American way of hard work, innovative ideas, etc. Or begrudge Bil Gates since he has demonstrated such a good citizen attitude of giving back to the society that provided an environment in which he could excel and prosper. I think the real issue today, and what Michael Moore is driving at, is those in the wealthy crows who have prospered off corporate welfare at the expense and support of the rest of us, and then use their prosperity to deny the others an ability to prosper. For example, I think things took a nasty turn with the concerted movement to bust unions starting in the 1980s, such as with the meat packer unions here in the midwest. We used to have meat packing facilities that produced a quality product through workers who were paid a decent wage with benefits. As a result, I don't recall ever hearing about a recall on meat in the 1960s or 1970s. However, in the 1980s, a few wealthy families that owned the meat packing houses in the midwest, with the lead of Mr. Reagan on the demise of the air traffic control union, were successful in bringing about the demise of the meat packing unions. As a result we were then innudated with illegal workers in the meat packing industry, a massive reduction in meat inspectors, and throughout the 1990s and this decade, numerous recalls of contaminated meat. And the response to the illegal worker argument is now "we can't get people in America to do the job these illegals will". Well that certainly never was a problem when we had decent wages and benefits for the meat packing industry. Another example is the corporate welfare that Walmart, Cabellas, Bass Pro, etc have enjoyed from the public treasury, primarily through local property and sales tax give aways in order to get one of their stores in a community, and as a result the tax base of the local schools, cities and counties are sacrificed. It simply is not a level playing field. But mention corporate welfare to anyone who gets their news from Fox and they seem to have no idea what you are talking about. And the corporate welfare has now gotten so out of control that it is bankrupting the country, far more so than any mothers receiving AFDC payments or medicare coverage. To me, that is how the current income disperity is a "problem"... i.e., a significant amount of those of the top are using their wealth now to essentially destroy the middle class and strip away any remaining governmental regulation that protects our society as whole, whether it be a reduction in meat inspectors, the local property and sales tax base, or in the case of the Koch Brothers, environmental regulations...

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Bebe Le Strange

William Henry Harrison "I believe and I say it is true democratic feeling, that all the measures of the government are directed to the purpose of making the rich richer and the poor poorer".

Andrew Jackson ""When the laws undertake... to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society...have a right to complain of the injustice to their government".

+1

It really doesn't fukn matter. Like the survival of the species, the rich and powerful are in an increasingly better position to make themselves richer and more powerful. They can only do that by sacrificing some of the resources and power of poor people. So, the poor only get poorer and more marginalized.

We shouldn't even care. This is going to happen no matter what. Worrying or complaining about it is a useless activity. Eventually, we'll be back to a serf society.

[Marcus Aurelius]

"They" Have always hated the American middle class because of it's buying power. So in the sixties they decided to dumb down the middle class. Public schools taught how to be a citizen instead of how to read and wright. Then in the 80's their income was destroyed. The economy is now starting to recover but it's a jobless recovery. Someone has to figure out where a few million people are going to work or it might get messy.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Eventually, we'll be back to a serf society.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS7SUFz36lg

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

+1

We shouldn't even care. This is going to happen no matter what. Worrying or complaining about it is a useless activity. Eventually, we'll be back to a serf society.

It depends where you are in the time line. Before or after the torches and pitchforks.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

"They" Have always hated the American middle class because of it's buying power. So in the sixties they decided to dumb down the middle class. Public schools taught how to be a citizen instead of how to read and wright. Then in the 80's their income was destroyed. The economy is now starting to recover but it's a jobless recovery. Someone has to figure out where a few million people are going to work or it might get messy.

Guess you personified that lack of education.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS7SUFz36lg

Guess you had the same spelling teacher as MA.

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Guess you personified that lack of education.

Damn.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI

LOL

[Marcus Aurelius]

One of my minions types for me. This one has failed me for the last time....

Or, you obviously don't understand good comedy.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Well thats what it is then. Obviously, its fucked up. Of course, the real question is WTF is Wisconsin doing with power plants to sell? In a rational world, how is power generation a government function?

In a rational world , the village idiot could see that this is a power play between workers vs. Big Business.


I just answered the question you asked. Now you wanna know why they have power plants to sell? IDK, but I sure the fuc would not give the power to sell them to one man under cover of darkness. Especially when he is taking donations from someone who just might be intrested in buying them.